The new Renaissance & Expression design

Rich said:

The day I let my cats choose my components for me is the day I quit this hobby! Personally, I think the new models look fine for what they are and as I've already said I don't see them as that big of a departure from current models. I'm just bummed about the price hike. The Prodigy cost $10,000 when it was discontinued in 2005. The Renaissance, which is really just an upgraded version of the Prodigy, sells for $25,000 a mere 11 years later. That's some serious inflation! 150% over 11 years. Shoreview has certainly figured out how to monetize the ML brand.

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Remember what I said earlier about how the market for higher end audio is shrinking and going upscale as money consolidates in the hands of the top few percent? This is one sad effect.

What you see is a divergence.

Some things become commoditized and cheap like big screen TV's, cell phones, computers etc.. which are constantly improving and dropping in price.

Luxury items sky rocket. I used to be into waterskiing. The "equivalent" Carbon waterski by the company I got my last ski from is now $2500 for a blank ski and about $4,000 set up with binders. I purchased a top of the line Ski Nautique with lots of custom options in 2001 for about $34,000. That boat is currently still worth what I sold it for 8 years ago and a new one is now over $70,000.

So on one hand my cell phone bill keeps dropping and I now have a camera, movie studio, web browser, super computer in my pocket and on the other similar audio equipment that is a luxury item is rapidly increasing in cost.

My Yamaha AV receiver is an incredible value and any mass produced audio will tend to be a better value.

If Martin Logan sold millions of 15A's a year you can be darn sure they would cost a whole lot less.

RCHeliGuy said:

What you see is a divergence.

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Absolutely!

This divergence is no more apparent than in the automotive industry.

Cheaply built entry level cars have become such good value for money, sometimes you second guess paying for a set of luxury wheels, even if you could perfectly afford it.

On a trip last year I rented a very basic entry level car for a week and was surprised to see how close the comfort, noise levels and most importantly the ride was to much much more pricey alternatives.

Same phenomenon is taking place in Hi End Audio.

Hear is my question though... I have read the entire thread and I do admit that anything looks weird in the beginning, however why couldn't they have just made the new speakers with a similar cabinet design? I cant image that there is a legitimate engineering problem with the angular design. It must have been a conscious design choice. Maybe with the longer/larger cabinets the angular design did look weird. Maybe it was just too much cabinet to dampen?

However I think the choice was more to move on to a new generation. To separate the new from the old. A re branding if you will.

Just a thought or two. None of it is really important haha, just curious.

I think the move to rectangular bass enclosures is because they now have forward and rear firing bass cones, which probably cancel out each others backwave. The straight up panels are probably because the panels are tall enough that a back tilt is no longer necessary.

If the bass drivers do cancel out each other's backwave, eliminating vibrations in the bass enclosure, that would certainly be worth a little less attractive styling.

I noticed that the cross over point on the Expression is 300. The Summits are at 270. I would think that 270 would be better since the panel would be slightly more prominent.

Also, The Expression goes down to 24 Hz just like the Summits. The cabinets have two 10 inch "asymmetrical" woofers similar to the Balanced Force 210 subs. The Expression has two 300 watt amps while the 210 has one 850 watt amp. Why could they not use a design and power similar to a 210 sub in the Expression to get the low end down to 20HZ, like the subs?! Just thinking out of the box here.

I think they look fantastic. The Summit/Vantage/Vista line (when released) was much more controversial and hard to like (although most would agree it has matured very well).

I think this is a great looking speaker.

I would like to question ML however - why the move away from the "Airframe" design - I'm sure the wider frame adds rigidity to the panel support, however it would also eliminate the so-called benefits of the airframe design on the previous line. So what's the story there?

PS - I couldn't care less about WAF - my listening room is my space. WAF is taken into consideration for the lounge room, bedroom, kids' rooms, dining room, kitchen, bathroom.......you name it. But NOT the listening room. That's my space.

ML Website has been updated with the details of Impression ESL 11A.

http://www.martinlogan.com/impression-esl-11a/

Strangely enough, all three new hybrids have the same cross over point.

Hocky said:

I thought the same until I saw them in person. After I had some real time with them, I think that they look better than my summits.

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I can't honestly say they look better than the Summits, but definitely look a lot better in person than the pics. The woofer cabinet sides are slightly tapered, in addition to the slight taper from front to back. They passed the WAF test, so I just got a pair in Walnut. However, I wish ML offered other wood finishes besides Walnut or Dark Cherry. Neither of those really matched our décor. Mine are still breaking in, and thus far, from a sonic standpoint, they're gorgeous (especially paired with my pair of BalancedForce 210's)! The Renaissance is a bit more intimidating, but likewise decent WAF for a large room.

Hi Alan, congrats on the new speakers!!

For me, this new line looks a bit better than the prior, as I really favor pure vertical panels.

The woofer box is always a challenge with hybrids, hard to make those look any nicer.

I like the simplicity look and the non tilted panel.. The slant back series as I call them just had a sound that was not all for me.. The older gens Prodigy and Odyssey are more to my liking both ears and eyes. Not to mention I PREFER to power my speakers with what amp I want not a class D design that is simple to make

The Renaissance is actually the only one in the series with a true vertical panel. The Expression and Impression are tilted back 5° (because shorter panels). The spikes/feet of the new series are simple screw-ins (like the legacy Summits) with minimal leeway for adjusting rake angle. However, the tonality (thus far) of the tilted Expressions are pretty close to what I had with my vertical Summits (upgraded with Summit X legs). Fortunately, the Summit X legs are compatible with the new series, so I might try them to 1) raise the speakers a bit, and 2) adjust the rake angle.

BTW, C.A.P., welcome back into the fold! Also, the Class D amps only drive the woofers, so you get to roll your own amp for the panels!

This is true , but I still dont like class D amps doing my work.. Wonder why the NEOLITH is not powered ?That being said I am not against it if done correctly.. I just dont care for the slant series voicing as much.. I think I would Like the new Renaissance speaker by looks but would have to hear it because I dont care how they look as long as they sound good.. God knows I dont like the MBL look but they do sing ! THATS WHAT LIGHTS are for

C.A.P said:

God knows I dont like the MBL look but they do sing !

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Chris,

The MBL aesthetics grow on you, kinda like hemorrhoids.

Gordon

PS: You can see the "ugliness" of the MBL's on my updated system pictures.

I just noticed today that a 3rd speaker has showed up. The Impression. I'm assuming thats an Ethos replacement?

Just a thought, maybe ML can produce just panel and let the user decide the woofer system/crossover/amplification?

I love my Summits and, strongly dislike the D class amps I'm stuck with. I have many tech buddies that can design the $hit out of bass transducer.

stuwee said:

Just a thought, maybe ML can produce just panel and let the user decide the woofer system/crossover/amplification?

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Actually they do. Sold under a different brand name called SoundLab

Gordon Gray said:

Chris,

The MBL aesthetics grow on you, kinda like hemorrhoids.

Gordon

PS: You can see the "ugliness" of the MBL's on my updated system pictures.

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LMAO ! They have grown on me, I didn't warm up to the lamp shade look but my ears SURE DAMN well did .. I would have no problem living with them ..

The Ren's are more function over form look. I would love to listen. That being said ML has now been releasing speakers at a much faster rate than the past.. Take away the new clear spar technology and micro perf stators and you have new subs and integration methods with a proven but older technology that has paid them well. I think its time for ML to step it up at designs.. Metal stators and Mylar are great and SOUND great but lets push the limits A LA MBL !

C.A.P said:

... I think its time for ML to step it up at designs.. Metal stators and Mylar are great and SOUND great but lets push the limits A LA MBL !

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I still think ML should buy Muraudio... http://muraudio.com/

WOW ! I wasn't even aware of them. Interesting.. As for ML buying them.. Nahhh.. $60k speakers sell here and there but the small HT stuff makes them HUGE money ..

sleepysurf said:

I still think ML should buy Muraudio... http://muraudio.com/

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I had forgotten about these guys. I have to visit them....a 20 minute trip.