The Positive Hillary/Donald Thread

The welfare issue goes a bit deeper.

Walmart employees alone received 6.2 BILLION in public assistance, like food stamps etc.. because Walmart doesn't pay a living wage.

Costco by comparison pays it's employees a living wage and gives them insurance.

Walmart employs about 1.4 million people in the US, and when they enter an area they typically displace a number of businesses that paid a living wage and put the business owners out of business.

Our social welfare system is subsidizing big business by allowing them to pay slave wages and then has to step in to keep these people from starving.


With regard to colleges. State colleges used to be free. The problem started when they became profit centers and their administrative costs started to go through the ceiling. If state universities were free and no longer profit centers they would be forced to clean up the waste and overhead that has nothing to do with teaching the students.

Blaming kids who are told that they need an education to be a success is not the answer. They are lead to the slaughter by their parents and society in general and just doing what they believe is expected of them.

Awesome Len. I think we found some common ground here!! .

Len44 said:

Oh, before I forget the positive part of this post: I am positive I don't want Donald Trump to be President of the United States.

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And we've come full circle. Because the staunch conservatives feel the exact same way about Hillary Clinton. This may be the first election in my lifetime where the vast majority of voters won't be voting for the person they want to win; instead they'll be voting against the person they don't want to win.

Our biggest threat of national security comes from the North, ISIS has been and will continue to send their crazed minions across the border from Canada, it's just too easy for them, we need to beef up security on all crossings north...does anyone think Clinton or Sanders will do that? Trump sure the hell will.

Should we let anyone from anywhere in the US anymore? Seriously??

The thing about terrorism is that it quite literally is all in your head. That is what terrorists bank on.

It's like people afraid of flying a plane when it is MUCH safer than driving. Statistically you are MUCH MUCH MUCH more likely of being hit by lightning.

Odds of being killed in a car crash during your lifetime 1 in 606.
Odds of being killed by a terrorist 1 in 20,000,000.

However we drive our cars every day and think nothing of it.

When we change how we treat neighboring nations because of terrorists, the terrorists win.

The only way we win is not to let them change how we live. When they turn us into a paranoid nation they win.

One more statistic. You are much more likely to die because of a piece of furniture in your house than from a terrorist.

Unfortunately it is human nature to become emotional about an irrational fear and let it drive you to do things that are not in your best interest. Politicians pray on irrational fears all the time, but if you can understand how you will by default make bad assumptions based on irrational fears, you can take steps to re-evaluate those assumptions.

Mark, I strongly agree with what you said however, I also do not believe in letting anyone getting a foothold into the situation...ie; turning a blind eye (I don't think you meant anything like that). Why let something bad happen just because you chose to live as you always have and not let "Them" get the better of "us"...I don't see things that way.

It scares me that I have to shun someone because I can't trust them, as a openly gay man I've had my share of shunning and being treated as an outcast, I know what that feels like! I'm thankful that the majority of folks accept me and my breathren as fellow humans right now. I have several nieces and nephews that I care for deeply and want them to have a safe, happy place here...with no nonsense and BS from radical what ever's!

Taking your point about discrimination.

The GOP is waving the terrorism flag just to get a rise out of people, just like the recent wave of state bathroom use laws. There has been no issue with transgender men molesting little girls in bathrooms, but when you wave around a idea of a scary man going into a bathroom with your little girl it generates an irrational fear and knee jerk reaction to waste a lot of time and effort over nothing.

This is the exact same thing.

Bernard said:

Oh, BTW, about that wall: If Trump becomes President, I think Canada should build a wall south of our border to keep out illegal immigration by Americans trying to escape Trump! And Canada will get the US to pay for that wall!

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What if the US pays for a bridge instead of a wall, but the bridge goes from Ciudad Juarez into Canada!

RCHeliGuy said:

The GOP is waving the terrorism flag just to get a rise out of people, just like the recent wave of state bathroom use laws. There has been no issue with transgender men molesting little girls in bathrooms, but when you wave around a idea of a scary man going into a bathroom with your little girl it generates an irrational fear and knee jerk reaction to waste a lot of time and effort over nothing.

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Mark- Why would a biological male, that identifies as a female, feel uncomfortable being in the boys/mens bathroom or locker room?

Kevin said:

Mark- Why would a biological male, that identifies as a female, feel uncomfortable being in the boys/mens bathroom or locker room?

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Let's see....

Suppose for a moment that you were in a dress, had makeup on, had your hair up, and were in heels.

Now suppose you go into the men's room and some rednecks take a gander at you and decide that you could use some kind of lesson for dressing like that?

Unfortunately this problem is real and a biological male dressed like that would feel MUCH safer in the ladies room.

http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2014/03/report_transgender_teen_attack.html

I could imagine college frat guys having a pledge dress up like that and then bringing them to a rougher part of town to use a men's bathroom just for hazing purposes.

In the article, it was a biological female that went into a boys bathroom and was harassed. It would seem to me that if she had gone to the correct biological bathroom, she (he) probably would have been left alone, it was opposite the situation you described, but that wasn't really my point. We have a couple of transgender, males who dress up as females, that have business through my office, I am cool with it and don't care which bathroom they choose to go in, they are single stalled bathrooms anyways. They seem have sort of a close community, so once one received insurance in our office and was treated with respect, I'm guessing their transgender friends were referred into us. I am pretty much a live and let live type person, it is no skin off my back at all.

But here would be my point. The law from what I understand is mainly concerning public schools, and covers not only bathrooms, but locker rooms and I think sport teams as well. If you have a biological male who identifies as a female, but has not gone through a sex change, using the females locker room, would some of them perhaps at that point feel uncomfortable? They can obviously see that they are sharing a locker room and perhaps showers with a biological male, so wouldn't it make sense that they perhaps would feel uncomfortable for the same reason given by the transgender person for not wanting to use their biological sex restroom? Transgenders make up .3% of the population, or roughly 1 in 700,000 according the most often citied survey. I would wager that given the situation I stated, a larger percentage of females would be made to feel uncomfortable than just that .3%.

As I said, I have no problem with transgender people. I am just not sure why their comfort level takes priority over that of others. Also, while transgender people might not be causing problems in the bathrooms, my guess is that they are friendlier and more respectful than the population at large, there have been problems with males in general going into female bathrooms, and it seems to have become more common since the federal government took this position.

Irony! Yup I picked the one bathroom harassment article that worked against the case I was making.

And I think you are right about the news on this issue causing problems just by giving some sexual predators a new idea that hadn't occurred to them yet.

Kevin said:

What if the US pays for a bridge instead of a wall, but the bridge goes from Ciudad Juarez into Canada!

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"Bridge Over Troubled Water", the troubled water being the US?

But how do you get the illegals to take the bridge rather than other avenues? It's like those "Deer Crossing" signs on the highway. You just can't get those damn deer to cross at the signs!

Kevin said:

As I said, I have no problem with transgender people. I am just not sure why their comfort level takes priority over that of others. Also, while transgender people might not be causing problems in the bathrooms, my guess is that they are friendlier and more respectful than the population at large, there have been problems with males in general going into female bathrooms, and it seems to have become more common since the federal government took this position.

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Sorry Kevin I have a big problem with that sentence. Everyone deserves to be comfortable where they live, work and yes, when they need to use a restroom. It's not about how many they are vs the rest of the population (I stand on the far left on issues like this, and still on the right of not letting LGBT's in our country illegally just because they are tormented where they live). I also have an issue with young men who identify as female using showers at schools with other girls. I think most would not do that anyway, trans people don't make waves or cause trouble, they've had enough of that already...

As to the perv predators, they will find a way to get to your child regardless, as a parent you are supposed to teach your child about dangerous situations and how to react to them. I HATE anyone who abuses a child, they don't deserve anything but a long slow, torturous death!! (Which is why I think Penn State's sports program should be abolished....sorry Dave...kinda). I'm sorry, this thread got off track from my post awhile back...

Stuwee, I am not sure what you are feeling sorry about? You say that you too would have a problem with a biological male showering with females, only that you think "most" wouldn't do it. But the law reads that restrooms, locker rooms, 'shower facilities', housing, and athletic teams must be open to the sex for which an individual identifies as being. It doesn't have to be just showering, girls do change clothes in locker rooms. If a male that identifies as a female is too uncomfortable to use the restroom of their biological sex, then how are they going to feel when other 'females' are getting changed or showered? What would they do at that point to still feel inclusive with the other females? You seem to be suggesting that they would either leave or hide in the corner at that point. Would that be comfortable?

To get back to my question, however, you really didn't answer it. I would guess that over 35% of young females would be uncomfortable changing or showering around a biological male. You said "everyone deserves to be comfortable", so why would you dismiss the comfort of that 35% or so of young females, so .3% of the population does feel more comfortable?

My main point is that opposition to this new law or ruling, isn't just an "irrational fear" as Mark suggested, for some of us out here with young daughters, it has to do with commonsense as well.

Hello Kevin, as I said "It's not about how many they are vs the rest of the population". Everyone deserves to feel comfortable and Equal! Maybe some day young girls could care less if a 'female' with a penis was around them changing clothes and, the could just behave like girls and giggle, exchange makeup tips and clothing options and where the hot sales and boys are this weekend.

"My main point is that opposition to this new law or ruling, isn't just an "irrational fear" as Mark suggested, for some of us out here with young daughters, it has to do with commonsense as well."

What? Someone show me one shred of evidence that a transgender female ever threatened a young girl or woman with harm in a social environment? Again, I said it's up to parents to instill commonsense in their children for ALL dangerous situations. Much love bro! Craig

You know, I wish I could identify as a single 28 year old, with the body of a Greek Adonis and a full head of gorgeous hair, and convince the ladies that despite the biological facts and my outward appearance, I really am that. Don't I deserve that comfort! Instead, reality has me being a married 48 year old balding man who gave up weight lifting some 15 years ago.

I would not allow or give permission to my 12 year old daughter to jump in the shower, or get naked in front of a young male, no matter who he/she identifies himself as being. My bet is that Obama would not have allowed that for his own two daughters when they were in their teens (I don't know how old they are now). But despite that being my "comfort" level as a parent, the federal government has now said it that a male has the right to get into the shower with my daughter. Again, if you feel everyone deserves comfort, why does my comfort as a parent, and a good one at that, not matter?

I already said that I don't think transgender people are going to start attacking anyone. I am sure that many transgender people have already been going into the restrooms of the opposite biological sex, without anyone having ever known and without any law saying the could, and I am fine with that. But once government starts issuing laws that a male only needs to say that he identifies as a female, to gain access to female showers and changing rooms, there are unfortunately people who will take advantage of that, and they have already started doing so. For that I can provide you with evidence all day long. Here is one. http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion...when-a-transgender-person-uses-a-locker-room/

Sorry Timm that we have gotten off your original topic.

Craig- We may have to agree to disagree. But much love back at ya.

The fact that this issue has the "traction" it does is absurd.

Gordon Gray said:

The fact that this issue has the "traction" it does is absurd.

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Especially when almost all showers in our public school systems collect dust!
Gym classes have all but disappeared, and my children never used a school shower and they are both in college now.

Kevin said:

Instead, reality has me being a married 48 year old balding man who gave up weight lifting some 15 years ago.

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Letting your self go is your decision. I've been on a 6 day a week exercise program (including 3 days of weights) since the first week of February this year. I got fed up and did something about it. I turn 50 this Fall. My goal is to have 6 packs by then. I'm also married, but have no interest in having anyone else look at me.