Not going to happen Mark. November will bring more disappointment for Libs and there is No evidence of DT doing anything that was illegal. Only the Libs in the FBI and Justice Dept. are guilty of that. Just let it play out and see.
The DON / redux
- Thread starter Gordon Gray
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It's funny how we seem to be living on completely different planets these days.
Trump has already admitted publicly to doing illegal things, but the GOP is still trying to figure out how to manage this situation.
Trump has already admitted publicly to doing illegal things, but the GOP is still trying to figure out how to manage this situation.
As the Democtat party actually admits to their beliefs on being Progressives and Socialists and more candidates professing that, I'm not sure how we reunite both halves.
We think truly have similar core beliefs of the country. It seems unlikely either of us will make a dramatic change from the direction we feel is the correct one.
I don't know how country survives without a center for the people.
We think truly have similar core beliefs of the country. It seems unlikely either of us will make a dramatic change from the direction we feel is the correct one.
I don't know how country survives without a center for the people.
The many issue is that the bottom 95% of the country are being left behind. That is only accelerating under Trump, but it has been happening for decades. They have less job security than ever, less benefits and the american dream is not only being downsized, it is completely out of the reach of many.
The stock market is not an indicator of the overall economy. It is simply the profit margins of the corporations which goes up when employees get less benefits and lower wages and even more so when less employees are needed. A surprisingly small percentage of the country are actually profiting from the stock market going up.
What we are left with is a growing group of very unhappy people who want "drastic" change. That's why the center is disappearing. When the average Joe realizes he is worse off under Trump, he will try something different.
I won't predict the next election. Both sides seem pretty confident. One side is wrong.
BTW I have no problem with socialists being voted in. Pure Capitalism is just as bad as pure Socialism. We have lots of advocates for big business right now and very few for the people. The best situation is a reasonable balance between the two.
The stock market is not an indicator of the overall economy. It is simply the profit margins of the corporations which goes up when employees get less benefits and lower wages and even more so when less employees are needed. A surprisingly small percentage of the country are actually profiting from the stock market going up.
What we are left with is a growing group of very unhappy people who want "drastic" change. That's why the center is disappearing. When the average Joe realizes he is worse off under Trump, he will try something different.
I won't predict the next election. Both sides seem pretty confident. One side is wrong.
BTW I have no problem with socialists being voted in. Pure Capitalism is just as bad as pure Socialism. We have lots of advocates for big business right now and very few for the people. The best situation is a reasonable balance between the two.
With your willingness to accept socialism how are or did things work out for the citizens of:
Peoples Republic of China
Cambodia
Cuba from 1959 forward
East Germany until 1990
Ethiopia 1975-1991
North Korea
Poland until 1989
Romania until 1990
Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991 and now is struggling with any economy
Venezuela currently
As far as the average person not having a chance. I have numerous nieces and nephews and siblings that have. in the economy of the last 6+ years that are creating very successful careers and business.
It works because they found something they want to pursue and work their ass off. Just the way every other generation that has been successful has done.
You seem to think that the Corporate world is out to keep everyone down. The Corporation has a responsibility to its stockholders first. Employees should be treated fairly but if you don't like your job then find one you like. No one is owed anything.
Mark, have you owned a company where your were responsible for the jobs of a sizable number of people? The impressing that is out in the world is someone creates a business and suddenly they are rich and everyone in the company should be taken care of via benefits.
If I recall correctly you work for yourself. I would guess that you have been in big corporate America and think it sucks like most people do. Companies are so large you are a number and that will probably never change.
The majority of America is small business that have/want control of their own destiny. As long as the government will stay out of it.
Peoples Republic of China
Cambodia
Cuba from 1959 forward
East Germany until 1990
Ethiopia 1975-1991
North Korea
Poland until 1989
Romania until 1990
Soviet Union from 1922 to 1991 and now is struggling with any economy
Venezuela currently
As far as the average person not having a chance. I have numerous nieces and nephews and siblings that have. in the economy of the last 6+ years that are creating very successful careers and business.
It works because they found something they want to pursue and work their ass off. Just the way every other generation that has been successful has done.
You seem to think that the Corporate world is out to keep everyone down. The Corporation has a responsibility to its stockholders first. Employees should be treated fairly but if you don't like your job then find one you like. No one is owed anything.
Mark, have you owned a company where your were responsible for the jobs of a sizable number of people? The impressing that is out in the world is someone creates a business and suddenly they are rich and everyone in the company should be taken care of via benefits.
If I recall correctly you work for yourself. I would guess that you have been in big corporate America and think it sucks like most people do. Companies are so large you are a number and that will probably never change.
The majority of America is small business that have/want control of their own destiny. As long as the government will stay out of it.
A Grand Jury has been impaneled to investigate FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe.
There have been 25 FBI employees either fired or demoted due to the impropriety of actions related to their trying to influence the election results.
Lets see how long it will take for him to start rolling over on them to try to save himself.
There have been 25 FBI employees either fired or demoted due to the impropriety of actions related to their trying to influence the election results.
Lets see how long it will take for him to start rolling over on them to try to save himself.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Brad,
I appreciate the posts on your "alternative" perspective. From my side of the aisle, the bottom line is this: The era of the Don is nearly over. It's only a question of time.
Best,
Gordon
I appreciate the posts on your "alternative" perspective. From my side of the aisle, the bottom line is this: The era of the Don is nearly over. It's only a question of time.
Best,
Gordon
Brad,
Once again the US ALREADY IS a combination of Capitalism and Socialism and has been for over a hundred years as are almost every modern country in the world.
I agree that pure Socialism is bad, but pure Capitalism is equally bad. The key is to strike the right balance. You and I obviously disagree on what that right balance is but it requires BOTH. Since we have people in Congress that have swung almost entirely to pure Capitalism, it only makes sense there would be a countering reaction to that. That is what democracy is supposed to be about.
I've actually enjoyed most of the jobs I've had over the years. I've worked for small startups, one Mom and Pop operation of about 25, a couple larger companies of about 500, and one government consulting company. One in particular I managed a decent sized group both hired and fired. I was there a decade.
However I finally found "my niche" where I have a constant stream of challenges, have a lot more control over my life, and do also do well financially. I'll freely admit that I chose the lower stress of not opening a store front and hiring employees. I wanted to have a higher quality of life and the ability to take off 2 months from work if I felt like it without worrying about a business and employees.
For the record I worked harder as a FTE than I do now and found that some companies really did try to screw their employees over financially and give the bare minimum in benefits or tiered it so that the great benefits were only available to the founders of the company. I've seen what I would call psychological tactics used to try to fool employees, and I've seen a greed culture that centered around a cult of personality who drained all the profits and gave as little back as possible. I've seen a good company taken over in a hostile take over and run into the ground.
But we see how shareholders drive things. Recently Toy R Us was on track to restructure and stay in business, but a group of shareholders calculated that they would come ahead if they liquidated everything, so everything was shutdown. Greed is good, right? In this case 31,000 employees were let go so stock holders could get a better short term return on their money.
Once again the US ALREADY IS a combination of Capitalism and Socialism and has been for over a hundred years as are almost every modern country in the world.
I agree that pure Socialism is bad, but pure Capitalism is equally bad. The key is to strike the right balance. You and I obviously disagree on what that right balance is but it requires BOTH. Since we have people in Congress that have swung almost entirely to pure Capitalism, it only makes sense there would be a countering reaction to that. That is what democracy is supposed to be about.
I've actually enjoyed most of the jobs I've had over the years. I've worked for small startups, one Mom and Pop operation of about 25, a couple larger companies of about 500, and one government consulting company. One in particular I managed a decent sized group both hired and fired. I was there a decade.
However I finally found "my niche" where I have a constant stream of challenges, have a lot more control over my life, and do also do well financially. I'll freely admit that I chose the lower stress of not opening a store front and hiring employees. I wanted to have a higher quality of life and the ability to take off 2 months from work if I felt like it without worrying about a business and employees.
For the record I worked harder as a FTE than I do now and found that some companies really did try to screw their employees over financially and give the bare minimum in benefits or tiered it so that the great benefits were only available to the founders of the company. I've seen what I would call psychological tactics used to try to fool employees, and I've seen a greed culture that centered around a cult of personality who drained all the profits and gave as little back as possible. I've seen a good company taken over in a hostile take over and run into the ground.
But we see how shareholders drive things. Recently Toy R Us was on track to restructure and stay in business, but a group of shareholders calculated that they would come ahead if they liquidated everything, so everything was shutdown. Greed is good, right? In this case 31,000 employees were let go so stock holders could get a better short term return on their money.
OK i'll bite. What do you guys think should be socialized that would be an improvement. Then, how would you actually fund your socialist system.
The latest that one of your socialist candidates wants full medical coverage for all Americans. The problem is it is almost equal to the entire amount of taxes paid by the entire country.
The latest that one of your socialist candidates wants full medical coverage for all Americans. The problem is it is almost equal to the entire amount of taxes paid by the entire country.
RDC
Well-known member
A good healthcare system is far from impossible Brad. https://nordic.businessinsider.com/the-16-countries-with-the-worlds-best-healthcare-systems-2017-1/
I Live in the #5 spot of this list and I am still amazed that a country like the USA never got to a healthcare system comparable to the countries on this list. Maybe your government should be talking some more to your northern neighbours to see how they did it.
Sorry if you feel in that I'm barging in, but sometimes a fresh look from an outsider can change your own views.
I Live in the #5 spot of this list and I am still amazed that a country like the USA never got to a healthcare system comparable to the countries on this list. Maybe your government should be talking some more to your northern neighbours to see how they did it.
Sorry if you feel in that I'm barging in, but sometimes a fresh look from an outsider can change your own views.
OK, valid question about a complex subject.
Let's pick just one issue to start with.
The cost of healthcare in the US and why it costs us 5 - 50 times more for prescriptions in this country. Big Pharma maximizes profits at the expense of patients. They've pushed very hard to say pain killers are not addictive, they spend a lot of effort to create new drugs that aren't any better than existing drugs just so they can get a patent, charge more and then direct market to us on TV ads to ask our doctor about their new drug. They form organizations to fight the medical use of pot when pot is not addictive and has been found to be much better than pain killers for patients going through chemo therapy and other procedures. Once again a cheaper solution is available but they pour millions into fighting allowing people to use that cheaper solution.
The biggest lie they propagate is that they need the profits they get from the US to fund research. The efforts they have to make marketable drugs that do us no good at all is staggering.
In this one example we can see that all the incentives are in the wrong place and the result hurts patients, causes them addiction and of course drives health care costs up.
Other countries pay much less for medicine than we do and they have socialized medicine.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Brad,
I believe the USA is the only "advanced" country that does not have universal health care for their citizens. If you call that socialism, so be it. I call it irresponsible and negligent that compromises the basic "quality of life" for the entire nation. We all "pay", in one way or another, for our broken health care system.
Best,
Gordon
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That may be but you would to take over the whole system and explain how that is affordable.
I agree about the cost of meds. A patient should be able to purchase meds from wherever they feel safe about the transaction. This is always fought by many conservatives, liberals, lobbyist and lawyers. It's not just capitalist/socialist issue.
As far as Opiates go I agree. The amount that are prescribed is absurd. Logic would suggest it would be easy to trace the paper trail from manufacturer to prescription to the user.
Somewhere there must be huge numbers of pills being approved.
I have 3 total nieces and nephews that have been addicted to opiates. Theirs began with recreational drug use and escalated from there and when the prescription opiate skyrocketed, turned to heroin. Two have turned there life around completely the other fights with it every day and is still in and out of rehab going on 11 years.
For me, the biggest problem is the legal system that has the medical profession pushed to the limit with fraudulent law suits. You can find an attorney to sue for virtually anything. I'm sure you have friends that are in the Medical profession that talk about the insane cost of Malpractice insurance. This always pending lawsuit causes the DRs to request way more tests than necessary to cover themselves. This again is not capitalist/socialist, conservatives/liberial but the political system of lobbyist and lawyers.
I'm not saying all lobbyists or lawyers so please don't suggest that.
Insurance companies pay out more and everyones cost go up whether it is medical or not.
In the years we have owned Restaurants we have been sued so many times without any cause. The insurance company won't bother to fight if it is not well above $100,000. It drives us crazy but they say it is to expensive fight the case.
I think the whole Marijuana thing is a joke it should just be legalized and be done with it. You can drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes but pot is going to destroy your life. I believe people that have a propensity to become addicted will find a way no matter what is legal or illegal. I have no interest in pot, those days ended in the late 70's.
Mark I am also puzzled how we can't have a reasonable medical system considering the wealth of this country and the willingness of people here to donate money and time.
I just don't believe there is anything that the government does efficiently and economically that can sway me to have total control.
I can meet more than half way though. When the government can find a to PROPERLY take care of all of our veterans that have given so much to this country, you can sign me up for that system. I'm also sorry to say I don't think I will ever be signing up.
RDC
Well-known member
I was indeed referring to Canada. But you seem to ignore the other tens of countries mentioned in the article all together.
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Brad,
Sadly I agree that our current government is incapable of making any of this work, period.
First we need to get rid of Citizen's United and start to get $$$ out of the election process, and get rid of PAC's.
Then we need to elect people who are not paid for, and who are capable of drafting their own legislation. Currently most of it comes from PAC's.
Until the interests of powerful PAC's are not driving politics and the people are, this will be hard to make happen. Certainly not in a cost effective way.
So we agree that if the government just took it over tomorrow, we would have a shit show. We have the wrong people in DC to pull this off.
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Brad,
I just checked how Sweden and New Zealand handle potential malpractice issues. The law essentially contains a "no fault" clause with limited right of appeal. And it's the agency that runs the Health Insurance program that ultimately decides if the claim is frivolous or has merit. And if they find it has merit, the agency decides the compensation amount. No lawyers, no juries.
The appeal process, from what I read, is not used very often because, I assume, most folks are grateful to have universal health coverage and receive competent, professional care.
.
Best,
Gordon
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Mark, I would be happy with 4-8 year term limits. I think it would eliminate a lot of freeloaders that want to suck the country dry.
I would love to have that type of appeal system Gordon. As you know the lawyer, politicians and lobbyist are often the same person. Try to get them to agree to that.
Just making the job a revolving door won't help if PAC $$$$ is still driving everything, and there could even be justification for having someone stay on if they are doing a good job.
The root cause is having the wrong incentives which is why it is critical to strike down Citizen's United and get money out of politics.
Until we have elections that can not be purchased, nothing will change.
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