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Thread: The DON / redux

  1. #856
    Super User Rich's Avatar
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    Excellent post, timm. I don’t think people realize how endemic and widespread corruption is within our own country. And it goes from the top, all the way down. From the highest federal officials, to the mayors of the tiniest towns. From politicians, to law enforcement, to private corporations and individuals. It’s everywhere in all facets of our society.

    Look no further than the recent arrest of Insys Therapeutics’ founder and CEO for bribing doctors to over-prescribe his fentanyl-based drug for non-approved uses. This same guy gave $500,000 to the “No” campaign that helped defeat Arizona’s Cannabis legalization law. In my own state, the Governor resigned in disgrace, and the Speaker of the House was convicted and imprisoned for ethics violations (under stricter ethics laws that he pushed through himself, no less).

    Corruption in both the public and private sector in our country seems out of control. And I’m not sure a lot of people realize just how bad it is getting and how much they are affected by it.
     
    Rich

    This comment is intended solely for educational purposes and should not be construed as conveying any express or implied warranty of fitness for any other purpose. Said comment constitutes merely the humble opinion of its maker and does not reflect the views of the MLOC or of ML, Ltd. YMMV. Trust your own ears.

  2. #857
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    The indictments returned today by Mueller could be a bombshell, showing the feds have actual evidence of collusion with Russia reaching the highest levels of the campaign. I’m not even talking about the arrests of Manafort and his protege. I’m talking about the announcement of the previously secret arrest and guilty plea of Papadopolous. The indictment contains a lot of potentially damning information. Interestingly, the FBI interview where Papadopolous lied about his Russian contacts occurred on January 27th, which just so happens to be the same day Trump called Comey, invited him to dinner, and asked for a pledge of loyalty. Coincidence?

    Also, in the footnotes of the indictment, there is a mention of an email from one high-ranking campaign official to the campaign supervisor, in which he forwarded Papadopolous’ email about Russian contacts and stated that someone “low-level” would have to go to Russia “so as not to send any signal.” The fact that Papadopolous has already plead guilty is a sure indication that he has turned State’s witness and is working for Mueller now. Given the ramp up in rhetoric from Trump about Hillary and screaming on Twitter “NO COLLUSION!”, I think it’s obvious Trump is concerned about this development. We could very well be witnessing in real time the bombshell moment that eventually brings about the end of his presidency.

    Edit: another tidbit...

    The report the FBI released for Papadopolous’ confession shows emails of him in direct communication with the Russians, having knowledge of the DNCs stolen emails months before the public ever knew and setting up meetings with the Russians to obtain those stolen documents on behalf of the Trump campaign, then lying about all of it to the FBI. This guy is the lynchpin that ties everything together. And he is cooperating with Mueller. Given the substantial and easily provable charges levied against Manafort and Gates, it is obvious Mueller’s team is applying serious leverage to try to flip them as well. Why would they want to flip Manafort? Who is higher up the chain than the campaign manager, that you would possibly hope to nab? One man: Donald Trump.
    Last edited by Rich; 10-30-2017 at 02:34 PM.
    Rich

    This comment is intended solely for educational purposes and should not be construed as conveying any express or implied warranty of fitness for any other purpose. Said comment constitutes merely the humble opinion of its maker and does not reflect the views of the MLOC or of ML, Ltd. YMMV. Trust your own ears.

  3. #858
    Super User Brad225's Avatar
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    I agree with both of you. Unless we all push for ANY person breaking the law to be held responsible the citizens of this country have no chance of a future of choice. If we could start with honest people representing us it would be much easier to create a system we could all exist with without always trying to cut the legs out from under the other person.

    On another note. Rich could you think about this and let us know your thoughts, or anyone else for that matter.

    If I understand the process so far. The information that started the Trump investigation was based on the FISA warrant wire tapping of the phones in T T.

    Wasn't the warrant agreed to based on the information in the dossier from the "Russians" based on what we knew at the time.

    Now that the DNC and Clinton election committee have admitted they hired Fusion GPS to do "Opposition Research" and that appears fictional, would that not potentially make the information obtained with the FISA warrant inadmissible?

  4. #859
    Super User Rich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad225 View Post
    On another note. Rich could you think about this and let us know your thoughts, or anyone else for that matter.

    If I understand the process so far. The information that started the Trump investigation was based on the FISA warrant wire tapping of the phones in T T.

    Wasn't the warrant agreed to based on the information in the dossier from the "Russians" based on what we knew at the time.

    Now that the DNC and Clinton election committee have admitted they hired Fusion GPS to do "Opposition Research" and that appears fictional, would that not potentially make the information obtained with the FISA warrant inadmissible?
    Brad, it’s really complex and hard to simplify. The bottom line is that we probably don’t have enough information to make any conclusions regarding potential admissibility of evidence. We don’t know the full underlying basis for the FISA warrants. The info from the dossier may have been used, but there may have been much more credible information to support it that hasn’t been reported. We just don’t know yet.

    Also, you need to realize that it has been reported that much of the information contained in the dossier has, in fact, been independently verified as factual by the F.B.I. I am not aware that any of it has been proven false . . . Only that the most salacious information has not been verified one way or the other. If this is true, it would be disingenuous to dismiss the whole thing as fictional.

    Also, there is a report out that Carter Page has been under FISA surveillance not just since last summer, but actually since 2014. So again, we just don’t know what information they had that led them to this investigation. Likewise, Manafort had been under investigation since 2014 for his work in Ukraine, and his FISA warrant was renewed last summer as well. Until we learn the full bases for these new warrants, you can’t really speculate on their validity or on evidence admissibility.

    Ultimately, my take on the whole thing is that if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and surrounds itself with ducks, chances are it is probably a duck. Let’s face it. Trump had more campaign staff and advisors with deep ties to Russia than any campaign ever. His various staff and kin had meetings with Russian contacts multiple times, which they repeatedly failed to disclose until called out on it. They then couldn’t remember details and downplayed the significance of those meetings. The Russians hacked the DNC and released batches of emails, along with implementing a vast troll farm social media disinformation campaign, and it was all done with the clear intention of helping Trump win. Putin does nothing without good reason. Then notice how Trump acted in regards to Putin, both during the campaign and after. And how he treated NATO allies. It was behavior that was inapposite to how virtually any other republican or democrat would have acted and it was all in Putin’s favor. Then the firing of Comey, the rage at Sessions for recusing himself, and now his attempts to disparage Mueller, call the investigation a witch hunt, and try to turn the focus back on Hillary and Obama. I’m not sure I have ever seen someone act so guilty of a crime. Reminiscent of Nixon’s famous “I am not a crook!” (Spoiler - he was a crook). If you take all the information presented so far at face value, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what went on here, and that it went all the way to the top. The only question is whether Mueller can gather sufficient evidence to prove it. Personally, I don’t doubt his ability to do so. But it will still take time to play out. Monday was just the first salvo and, as McCain noted, many more shoes will drop.
    Rich

    This comment is intended solely for educational purposes and should not be construed as conveying any express or implied warranty of fitness for any other purpose. Said comment constitutes merely the humble opinion of its maker and does not reflect the views of the MLOC or of ML, Ltd. YMMV. Trust your own ears.

  5. #860
    Super User Rich's Avatar
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    I have to add one more observation about Trump, unrelated to everything else. Have we ever had a President in history who passes the buck as much as he does? If something goes wrong on the battlefield, he blames his generals. Something goes wrong in the campaign, he blames the staffers, then fires them and distances himself from them. If he lies or handles something poorly, he blames the media for reporting it. He almost never accepts responsibility for anything. Even when he admits he was wrong, he does so in the most weasel-ly way possible. After years of insisting that Obama was born in Kenya, and after mounting public pressure to address it during the campaign, he got up and glibly stated Obama was born in America. End of story. Move on. No apology to Obama or to Americans for his years of using his bully pulpit to proselytize this racist falsehood and slander the sitting president. He NEVER accepts personal responsibility for his own actions or for those of his underlings. Consider this aspect of his personality when you hear him twitter-screaming that “there was NO COLLUSION!” Hard to trust the words of someone who has never admitted wrong-doing in his life, refuses to accept ultimate responsibility for anything, and literally shows no remorse for any of his actions.
    Rich

    This comment is intended solely for educational purposes and should not be construed as conveying any express or implied warranty of fitness for any other purpose. Said comment constitutes merely the humble opinion of its maker and does not reflect the views of the MLOC or of ML, Ltd. YMMV. Trust your own ears.

  6. #861
    Super User Brad225's Avatar
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    Thanks for you take on it Rich. I can't disagree with what you have said. Only time will tell what comes of it.
    As far as Trump goes, he displays, I think, about what his bigger than life personality has always been. I have worked in my capacity as a craftsman for quite a few men whose wealth was in the hundreds of millions. I would say the majority of them had strange personalities, were never wrong and would throw you under the bus without thinking about it. Fortunately my connection to any of them was only 12-18 months at a time.

    My wife is a CPA and was the personal business manager for a person like this for about 3 years. During that time she negotiated a deal for the sale of his company. He would have received about $175 Million plus substantial money for his siblings and children. This was a more than fair price but said the buyers were trying to cheat him and he kept the company. My wife left a year later amidst some bad decisions by him and 6 months after that, there was a takeover of the company and he ended up with $4 million. My wife started hearing that he blamed her for making a bad deal for the sale and giving him bad advice. This was a person that would only pay multiple people for advise but only take the one he wanted to hear. Each time the person giving the advice would profit from his decision. It is like a mini version of life in D.C.

  7. #862
    Super User Rich's Avatar
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    Bingo, Brad! And the problem with those types of people is that they think they are smarter than everyone else, but never accept responsibility when they make poor decisions. The other problem is that they tend to think they are “special” and that the normal rules don’t apply to them. The biggest egos tend to be the most fragile.
    Rich

    This comment is intended solely for educational purposes and should not be construed as conveying any express or implied warranty of fitness for any other purpose. Said comment constitutes merely the humble opinion of its maker and does not reflect the views of the MLOC or of ML, Ltd. YMMV. Trust your own ears.

  8. #863
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    Well...I've got my Maggie 20.7s. So F them!! Lol.

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