Electrostatic or traditional floor standers ?

Hey group. I am very slowly building a 2ch system. I have a working system now comprised of mostly repurposed HT gear. I do have my final integrated amp and phono preamp. I think my next step might be speakers.

I am by far from the purchasing step or even auditioning, basically getting a list of models to look at and features I want. One feature I want is to play deep. I would like to eliminate the need of a standalone sub. Brings me to my question, The google-fooing Ive done has said that the ML 60XT digs pretty deep. I am guessing the ESL (maybe Theos if budget allows) plays pretty low too due to the integrated woofer.

What do you guys think?

Important info...
bedroom 13x13ish
budget 3-4k

Current gear
Emotiva Mini-x 50wpc
Hagerman Bugle2 pre

Currently in use, but upgrade or remove at a later point
Outlaw audio LMF1-ex - remove
Project Carbon - upgrade to RP3

addition later
some kind of DAC with additional inputs, optical, analog rca, usb.. Schiit is on my short list.

I think you should wait for few months since ML will be out with a new range of loudspeakers. The older EM-ESL and Theos might then be on sale with maximum reduction in sale price of 50% eventually hopefully.

You may be able to purchase Theos pair for around $2500. Or EM-ESL for $1250 pair.

If you may not be able to wait I would recommend the Electromotion ESL price approx. $ 2200 alongside Anthem MCA 225 power amp, price $ 2000.

The Motion 60xt is not refined to the same extent as the Electromotion ESL because does not have electrostatic panel. Is more expensive than EM-ESL and is priced around $3000. The EM-ESL bass will not sound as low as the Motion 60xt. However it has adequate bass and more than compensates by a great electrostatic panel for mids and highs.

Conclusion:
With matching power amplifier, Anthem MCA 225 may match, the EMESL stands head and shoulder above the Motion range. If possible please wait for a substantial reduction in sale price on EMESL and Theos. I must point out that for the EMESL to sound great requires a matching power amplifier.

Emotiva mini will not sound great alongside the EMESL or the Theos. Should sound very good with the Motion line up. I would advise you to take your emotiva mini to the ML Motion retailer and connect from small bookshelf to larger floor standing Motion models to determine with which loudspeaker from the Motion range, emotiva matchs best to.

Hope the above helps you to reach a positive decision.

Have fun listening to music.:music:

Wow. $2500 for a set of Theos would be a no brainier!

As for amps, my Emo Mini has a RCA out that I could use to connect to a power amp.

What do you look for in a amp to match a Electrostatic ?

TubeNewbie said:

Wow. $2500 for a set of Theos would be a no brainier!

As for amps, my Emo Mini has a RCA out that I could use to connect to a power amp.

What do you look for in a amp to match a Electrostatic ?

Click to expand...

I have yet to hear the new Anthem MCA 225 power amp. However I have heard the less expensive ($1500) and far less powerful MRX 510 receiver with the Electromotion ESL.

The sound was great except for two areas. The vocals were quite suppressed and not open and lows were very weak. These two problems could arise if the receiver was not connected correctly with the loudspeakers. I suspect this was the case. Because everything else in the acoustic presentation was amazing.

What I expect from the Anthem MCA 225 if it matches with the EMESL is follows:
Open vocals and precise adequate or enough bass. Transparency to source material accompanied by lots of information or audio detail presented in a delicate manner with substantial imaging from good recordings. Inaudible distortion at high volumes. Attached to EMESL, MCA 225 should not clip, even at very high preamp volume. A very stable sound stage. Finally the system audio should be good in resolving, clear, airy and fast too. ML ESL's are traditionally weak in the timbre or tonal area. Tone is what makes audio musical. Therefore I would search for adequate tonality or musicality too.

At this price point I think these are my subjective reasonable expectations from a matching system comprising of solid state electronics and hybrid electrostatic loudspeakers.

My thoughts on the subject...

For the price, you will be hard pressed to beat ML.

Especially if you desire coherence in sound.

Once you go beyond a certain price point and you start into floorstanders that are well into the teens or twentys... you start hitting floorstanders that just sound flat out good.

With the right system and components, you can get these traditional floorstanders to be eerily good... and have a lot of the pluses of the sound you like from ML in addition to dynamics and punch.

But in my opinion, the cost difference is significant. Which is why I love ML.

Y

Joey_V said:

My thoughts on the subject...

For the price, you will be hard pressed to beat ML.

Especially if you desire coherence in sound.

Once you go beyond a certain price point and you start into floorstanders that are well into the teens or twentys... you start hitting floorstanders that just sound flat out good.

With the right system and components, you can get these traditional floorstanders to be eerily good... and have a lot of the pluses of the sound you like from ML in addition to dynamics and punch.

But in my opinion, the cost difference is significant. Which is why I love ML.

Click to expand...

Joey, does this mean that you're done with your flirtatious affair with non-ML and coming back into the fold? Perhaps a pair of Neoliths?

Looking at your signature, with all the 'awaiting more', I can't help but wonder where you put it all. I thought you were restricted for space, Doc.

M15 said:

I think you should wait for few months since ML will be out with a new range of loudspeakers. The older EM-ESL and Theos might then be on sale with maximum reduction in sale price of 50% eventually hopefully.

You may be able to purchase Theos pair for around $2500. Or EM-ESL for $1250 pair.:

Click to expand...

Where would I go to check on on a price drop? Online retailer?

TubeNewbie said:

Where would I go to check on on a price drop? Online retailer?

Click to expand...

Online retailer. There was one that had ML Vista for approx 50%. Off. Few years ago. I am sorry but I do not remember the name. Keep the MLO classified ads in mind there may be good deals on second hand loudspeaker.

if interested I will soon have a pair of Spire's for sale ..............

TubeNewbie said:

Where would I go to check on on a price drop? Online retailer?

Click to expand...

Twich54 has great Spire loudspeakers. If you wish please get in touch with him.

Best wishes.

I may be mistaken but the name of the online retailer was Future Shop.

Future Shop stores have closed and now are opening under the brand name of Best Buy.

Again I may be mistaken. I do not really recall the name of the online retailer.

Best Buy does carry ML. That might end up being the way I go due to their no interest financing specials.

I've gotten all my refurbs or discontinued ML's from Audio Advisor.
http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=243

If you are looking for deep bass, I would suggest that you look no further down the line than Ethos. Both the Theos and Electromotion ESL are rather thin in the bass. When I was shopping last year, I demo'd SummitX, Montis, Ethos, Theos and Electromotion. The Summit X and Montis have good deep bass response, no sub required. The Theos definitely need a sub in my opinion. I did not listen that long to the Electromotion ESL, but the bass was not too deep either. I ended up with Ethos. In my room, the bass is adequate. I am contemplating a sub though I probably will not get one. I have not measured response, but subjectively it is reaching low 30's. If I would have went with Theos, I would at a minimum want to bi-amp with separate amp for the bass.

I see that a set of ML Spires just went up for sale by twitch54 on this site.

They would be a great sounding set of speakers too!

I finally got to a local dealer to get my eyes on a set of Ethos, Theos, and Motion 60. The Motion 60 definitely don't have the wow factor of the electrostatic speakers.

They had a set of Theos hooked to a Sony Z1ES high res streamer via a 80W Sony A1ES integrated... Anyhow it sounded great! exactly the sound I was looking for, great detail and nice low end.

Hopefully they do go on sale so they can be within my budget!

On a side note I also looked at some Focal and Revel towers, both were very beautiful.

TubeNewbie said:

On a side note I also looked at some Focal and Revel towers, both were very beautiful.

Click to expand...

Having just recently purchased a pair of Revel's (Studio 2's) I can attest to their seductive / sonic merits. I will also go so far as to say that the Revel F208's are one of the best speakers I've ever heard in their price category, right up there with the Maggie 3.7i's

I'll reply as the resident Motion series guy.

Listen for yourself before making a decision. I went Motion 40 because at the time I couldn't afford to buy the proper electronics to drive what I wanted (Ethos/Theos). Currently I'm driving Motion 40s with a Parasound A23/P5 in a condo and IMO its as good as you can get with the Motion series stuff.

Plus the Motion 40/60XT are quite a bit easier to drive. Don't rule everything out until you let your ears decide. I'm definitely interested in Ethos / Theos still, but I do absolutely love my M40s.