New ML Ethos owner from Syracuse, NY

Hello,

Recently fulfilled a long time dream and got a pair of Martin Logan Ethos speakers. Purchased a Hegel H160
integrated amp at the same time. Using a Myryad MC100 CD player as a CD transport only. Using the Hegel's
DAC as I'm pretty sure it's superior to the Myryad's.

Speaker cables are by Aqueous.

Already suffering from "upgrade-itis". Would really like to get a pair of Summit Xs.

If you are already suffering, than if you had purchased the Summit Xs you would be wanting a pair of Renaissances.

The sickness never bit me.

I got over lens lust in photography, got over car lust, bicycle lust, etc.. and now I just enjoy what I have and don't upgrade anything unless I have a good reason.

I actually bought my first serious sound system back in 1989 (AudioLab 8000A integrated amp. w/ MB Quart Speakers and Velodyne Subwoofer) and never felt the need to upgrade for 27 years. System failed a little while back forcing me to buy new equipment.

This is such a vast improvement over what I had before, that I'm now curious as to what is possible. Can't afford the Renaissance but the Summit X's are within reach. Crossover frequency is 100 Hz lower than the Ethos so am assuming performance differences are substantial.

Welcome aboard. We call that condition "Joey-itis". Be careful, it's contagious.

rpokuls said:

I actually bought my first serious sound system back in 1989 (AudioLab 8000A integrated amp. w/ MB Quart Speakers and Velodyne Subwoofer) and never felt the need to upgrade for 27 years. System failed a little while back forcing me to buy new equipment.

This is such a vast improvement over what I had before, that I'm now curious as to what is possible. Can't afford the Renaissance but the Summit X's are within reach. Crossover frequency is 100 Hz lower than the Ethos so am assuming performance differences are substantial.

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"Substantial Difference" is a VERY relative term in audio circles.

Price and performance are not linearly related but more exponential with price increases going up exponentially for smaller and smaller performance gains.

But it is your wallet and if it seems like fun to upgrade your gear, have as much fun as you can afford

The key is how you see the vast improvement you already have. I'm extremely happy with how my system sounds and for me the journey ended there. I realize I'm at the point of diminishing returns and see no point in auditioning all kinds of equipment. On the other hand I'm getting ready to blow a chunk of change on more RC Helicopter equipment, so I obviously have money burning a hole in my pocket that I'm spending on something.

RCHeliGuy said:

"Substantial Difference" is a VERY relative term in audio circles.

Price and performance are not linearly related but more exponential with price increases going up exponentially for smaller and smaller performance gains.

But it is your wallet and if it seems like fun to upgrade your gear, have as much fun as you can afford

The key is how you see the vast improvement you already have. I'm extremely happy with how my system sounds and for me the journey ended there. I realize I'm at the point of diminishing returns and see no point in auditioning all kinds of equipment. On the other hand I'm getting ready to blow a chunk of change on more RC Helicopter equipment, so I obviously have money burning a hole in my pocket that I'm spending on something.

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I agree. Law of diminishing returns.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of hype and "snake oil" in the audiophile world. I once heard some guy claim that his system sounded better because his electricity came from a hydroelectric dam rather than coal.

But I am willing to concede that speakers and room placement of speakers are major drivers of sound quality. And so the larger panel of the Summit X might make a difference.

rpokuls said:

I agree. Law of diminishing returns.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of hype and "snake oil" in the audiophile world. I once heard some guy claim that his system sounded better because his electricity came from a hydroelectric dam rather than coal.

But I am willing to concede that speakers and room placement of speakers are major drivers of sound quality. And so the larger panel of the Summit X might make a difference.

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To be clear I'm not saying that the Ethos are just as good as the Montis, Summit, Renaissance or the Neolith.

My advice is that unless you are getting a great deal on a set of used Summits, and they occasionally show up on right on this forum, you might want to wait until ML refreshes the lineup which is supposedly about to happen. Then you have the option of getting a deal on a clearance product, buying someones used product when they decide to upgrade or getting whatever is coming.

I got the Ethos for two simple reasons. It was the first set of speakers with a self driven woofer which simplified my amplifier setup and they went just low enough that I didn't feel compelled to get a subwoofer for it. Both of those things put them in what I considered a sweet spot. They are not the end all be all, but they sound great and I really enjoy them.

If you just got yours, you might want to experiment with speaker placement to dial them in. I got a calibration microphone and used Room EQ that ran frequency sweeps and allowed me to optimize the performance of my speakers in my room. Small changes in the distance between them, distance from the front wall, tilt towards center and vertical angle had a very measurable difference. Your room and speaker placement have a profound impact on your sound quality. I've seen the measurements from the rooms of people with much more expensive systems than mine with all kinds of room treatments that were obviously fighting the room and losing. Measurements don't tell you everything, but they can be very good indicators. Frankly I'm surprised that I got the response curves I've gotten in a room with no treatments, but fortunately it is an irregular shape and very long.

If my room were larger, I might have justified a larger panel. As it is they seem right sized for the space.

RCHeliGuy said:

If you just got yours, you might want to experiment with speaker placement to dial them in. I got a calibration microphone and used Room EQ that ran frequency sweeps and allowed me to optimize the performance of my speakers in my room. Small changes in the distance between them, distance from the front wall, tilt towards center and vertical angle had a very measurable difference. Your room and speaker placement have a profound impact on your sound quality. I've seen the measurements from the rooms of people with much more expensive systems than mine with all kinds of room treatments that were obviously fighting the room and losing. Measurements don't tell you everything, but they can be very good indicators. Frankly I'm surprised that I got the response curves I've gotten in a room with no treatments, but fortunately it is an irregular shape and very long.

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I've been out of the audio world for 27 years now. But I've heard of people using calibration mikes to check the room, etc. Is it an involved process to do this? Expensive?

rpokuls said:

I've been out of the audio world for 27 years now. But I've heard of people using calibration mikes to check the room, etc. Is it an involved process to do this? Expensive?

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For me it was 25 years I just got back in a year ago.

I got a Calibration mic, an XLR to USB box and used Room EQ which is free software. I ran that on a Computer that fed the frequency sweep signal by USB to my OPPO 105D.

I could give you links to what I purchased to make it work if you are interested.

RCHeliGuy said:

For me it was 25 years I just got back in a year ago.

I got a Calibration mic, an XLR to USB box and used Room EQ which is free software. I ran that on a Computer that fed the frequency sweep signal by USB to my OPPO 105D.

I could give you links to what I purchased to make it work if you are interested.

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Yes, please do so. It would be much appreciated. Thank you.

The equipment I used was the following:

Behringer ECM8000 microphone
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 USB A/D with Phantom 48V power for the microphone.
25' XLR male to XLR female cable
Tripod to hold the microphone where I sit.

Point the microphone straight up at the ceiling.
Run the RoomEQ software
Make sure it can see the microphone and can send audio to your stereo.
Like I said, I used a USB cable from my computer into my OPPO 105D'd DAC, but you can use analog outputs from your computer if that is easier.

Get a baseline to make sure your volume is adequate for measurement. I centered around 75 dB for most of what I did.



Once you get a frequency response make small changes and re run the sweep. I made 40 small changes one day.

My room naturally amplifies the low end a bit and I ended up running a bit negative on my bass controls.

The following worked for my room. I'm not sure if they are general guidelines or not.

Bass: Distance from the front wall dramatically impacts my bass response. I pulled my speakers out until the bass became crisp and lost the boominess.
Mid: The distance between the speakers seemed to impact the peaks and valleys in the mid range.
Highs: Toe in and the front panel angle to the floor impacted the higher frequencies more.

After a lot of iterations, I finally ended up with this. 21.6 Hz to 20kHz +/- 5dB which is pretty good without room treatments.
To be fair that is with 1/12 smoothing. Without any smoothing it doesn't look nearly this good, but you need to look at the smoothed values to help make changes that average out to an improvement.

It sounds very lifelike to me at all the volumes I listen to music. However if I push the volume much higher than I like the sound quality falls apart and it gets very boomy which I believe is an artifact of my room.

Thank you very much for all the info. Will definitely check this out.

And yeah, your room response looks amazingly flat.

Welcome aboard, is it fair to assume you're a big 'Orange' fan ? !

FWIW, there's a good chance I'll have a pair of Spire's for sale within a couple of weeks.

twich54 said:

Welcome aboard, is it fair to assume you're a big 'Orange' fan ? !

FWIW, there's a good chance I'll have a pair of Spire's for sale within a couple of weeks.

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Thanks! And yeah GO Syracuse!