ML Electromotion ESL and bridged Parasound A23

Hi,

I am in the process of trying to find a suitable power amp for my new Electromorion ESLs, which I currently drive with a Pioneer SC-2023 A/V.
From extensive reading numerous reviews and opinions both here and at various sites, I have come down to either the Parasound Halo A21 (250W/8ohm) or the Parasound Halo A23 (125W/8ohm).
Having taking into consideration that the MLs need quite a lot of power to play at high volumes, both for music and home cinema, seems that the A21 is the way to go over the A23 (400W/8ohm).
Since the A21 is way pricier than the A23, I was thinking of getting the A23 and maybe in the near future get another one and bridge them.
Having read the A23 manual, it states that when bridged, it is better not to drive any speaker less than 8ohm and as we know the Electromotion are 6ohm and can in some frequencies dip down to 1,6ohm !!
The explanation for the above statement is that, at lower impedance the required current from the amp will be too much, so there is a possibility of over-heating.
It is not that the amplifier cannot give more power at lower load but rather, the extra current may over-heat the amp.
The Electromotion ESL, according to a lab test I have found http://www.listeningpost.co.nz/assets/martinlogan_electromotion_117595_1.pdf have some load dips but, as the report states the required power at these frequencies are not a problem for most modern power amplifiers.
What is your comment on this ? will the bridged A23's will have a problem with the Electromotions or should I go for the A21 just to be sure ?

Hola Ankan...I really envy you guys who can play the music at high levels. But I think my ears are quite different. I rather like to spent 10 hours of listening pleasure than only one hour with ear fatigue due to the excess of level. Once, some time ago, I went to our National Theatre to listen over 200 musicians (9th Beethoven's symphony) and I took with me my Ivie SPL meter. I got the center 3rd rod seat. I was away of the stage about only 15 feet. My surprise was that at the most high levels of the music, and a live performance, I got peaks of 93dB right there at my seat. 93dB. I thought that I was going to read measurements above 105 dB! but I was wrong. I do know that amplified concerts are way above 110dB! and you must wear ears protection, unless you want to get deaf.

I do know that advices are sometimes a pain in the butt, but I must share with you my experiences. Martin Logan speakers are totally different than cone speakers. To get the emotional live performance, you do not need to play them that loud. All the nuances, the harmonic texture of the instruments, no matter what type of music you are listening, are there. The inner detail, the right size of the instruments, the feeling of the musician(s) and their communication between them if what you get, without making your ears to bleed. You get the sense of truly 3D, with an outstanding open sound, without any glare at the voices. I do believe in quality watts than quantity watts. Your ears can tell. Watts are watts right? So, a shire horse and a pony, both are horses, but one is more powerful. Measurements are just that. Measurements.

I had listen great measurements, but its missing some flair. I can't buy by specs or reviews. The specs are just a guide. I must decide by myself if I am going to like or not. My liking could be totally different than yours, or perhaps we could like the same devices or just not. I have customers here, that are using only 22Watts/channel and their are very, very happy with the results. (Viva amps made in Italy). The new ML stat panel is right for all type of power amps. The little flaws that they might exhibit, will not harm the music that bad as the others having the same power amp. Comparisons are a must.

If I ask you why did you buy ML, the first thing that you might say is, the look, and the quality of transparency in the sound. then you start to add many other things, like the air between instruments, etc...the review that you are sharing, says: High sensitivity means that even 15W/ch of power delivers good results and focus was above average. Also says this: A virtue of panel speakers, especially electrostatic types, is low distortion and the ElectroMotion ESL did not disappoint. It certainly sounded clear enough and the analyzer confirmed mid-to-treble distortion values of 0.02% for second and third harmonic and with nothing else present. For example, at 86dB 1kHz the distortion was a very good 0.1% or -60dB, and even at 93dB spl second was held to 0.25%, third to 0.05%, and with no other harmonics. At 93dB and 40Hz the results were also good at 1% second and 0.5% third (inaudible errors), and the bass unit would take a decent 26V (about 90W sinewave) without rattling. Solid output was possible down to 33Hz. We consider that this is a well sorted speaker is a well sorted speaker design.

Happy listening!

Roberto,

Thanks a lot for the reply, I highly appreciate your answer !
Yes, you' re right about the listening levels. Don't take me wrong though, I don't usually enjoy my music (movies is a completely different story...) in "gone deaf" levels, but I do enjoy listening to it perhaps a little louder than "usual" so to speak.
Since I don't have a SPL meter, I cannot tell you about the db's that I "prefer" most of the time, but I can tell you for sure that I want (or least I would like to) to feel the punch and real "size" of instruments and stage.
So, given these facts in mind what would you suggest, just one A23, two bridged A23's or the A21 ?

There apps free download for phones, and you can measure at least some SPL. On ML, is you decrease the level, the size of the instruments still are with perspective. This is an outstanding feature. Did you know that your Electromotions had being nominated as product of the year by several serious reviewers. http://www.tonepublications.com/review/martinlogans-electromotion-esl/ Your reviewer states that with only 15 Watt/channel, they do produce a very good SLP.

Remember the rule: Its better quality than quantity! Your Electromotions will reveal the quality of your components. They do not produce distortion...the distortion that you hear, its coming from your components.

Once again thanks a lot for your time and effort !
I am fully aware that these speakers are awesome and quite revealing of the music signal and I want to make sure that I can get the best within my powers of what they can offer...

roberto said:

Remember the rule: Its better quality than quantity! Your Electromotions will reveal the quality of your components. They do not produce distortion...the distortion that you hear, its coming from your components.

Click to expand...

Uh nope, the room causes way more distortion than any compliantly designed equipment. Go ahead an obsess over .003% thd vs .007% thd when SBIR (this still is a problem with ML's since they use cones for the bass) and reflections cause huge peaks and nulls.

I just purchased an A23 and absolutely love it. I considered the A21, but like you it was quite a bit more money and in my small condo living room I felt like the A23/P5 combo would be a great way to drive my Motion 40s.

The difference between the two amps is primarily how much time the amps spend in Class A power. The A21 first 10 watts is class A vs. 2.75 watts for the A23.

I think I will go for the A23 too, as the A21 is pricier and does not fit in my rack...