New owner of used Aerius I want to go digital cross-over

Hi guys, I've done some reading but people seem gloss over some of the details.

I want to go ahead and run a digital cross-over like the berringer or some other unit. My understanding is that the make the speaker more efficient and greatly increase the sound quality and allow for some very extensive EQing.

Does anyone know of a walk-through on how to do this? I'm guessing I have to make quite a few modifications to the existing cross-over network to disable its effects.

Also I am guessing that I have to bi-amp the speakers.

If bi-amping is a must is it important to have 4 identical channels or is it ok 2 have say 2 different 2 channel amps from the same company? I have B&Ks best 2CH and one of their higher end but not the same 2CH and then I also have a 5CH. The 2CH amps don't have gain control but I'm guessing I can adjust that in the cross-over anyways.

What other benefits can I look foreword to with digital xo? Is the only downside the perceived downside of utilizing all the chip amps inside the xo?

What XO do you guys recommend? My understanding is that the berringer is compatible with the software you use to measure the speakers and set the EQ. Are there others?

I'm on a budget so this seems like a better idea than redesigning and rebuilding the current passive network.

Thanks

Using the 5CH to power them right now




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Moved your post from Tweaks to New Member introductions. Welcome aboard and congrats on the Aerius'.

Before you look into digital crossovers, I suggest playing with placement and amplification to improve the sound quality. From looking at your pic, my first thought (after "socks would be good") is that your speakers too close to the wall and the rear wave is probably killing the soundstage. When sitting in the sweet spot with your eyes closed, you should not be able to hear where the music is coming from and you should be able to pinpoint the musicians on the "stage" in front of you.

Looks like you're driving them with a Pioneer receiver.. What model? The older ML models like the Aerius are notoriously hard to drive and that receiver may not be up to it. Aerius was a very nice sounding speaker, if memory serves me correctly...

Good luck.

Tom.

Too close to the wall
What options do I have if they have to stay this close? I was playing around with putting blankets on the wall just to see the difference. Bottom line... I can't pull them out very far as my living room is tiny, also the walls open up to open space directly to the outside of the speakers. So there isn't much more all and I wonder what would happen if they had no wall to reflect off of (this could be an option maybe)

Amplified by receiver
I'm using one of the B&K amplifiers listed in the post. Currently I'm using the 5 CH amp bi-amped but I have 2 other much much more powerful B&K 2CH amps to choose from.

Imaging
Right now... Not perfect but the room is hard to work around.. Anyways sounds that are centered seem to come from an imaginary center channel well enough that I had to make sure center was turned off. As for the entire soundstage... Well it's not there yet.

The questions about the Cross-over is my biggest question though and second would be what I can do to compensate for them being too close to the wall.

I don't plan on doing the cross-over right away or even in 3 months but I need to plan these things out in advance. I make minimum wage so projects have to be planned out. Equipment traded or sold.

I need to know no: what internal changes will need to be made to use an active external cross-over like the behringer units. Does it require me to keep my 5CH B&K or get a 2nd identical 2CH to match my bigger amp or can I mix and match 2CH amps?

First, welcome to the MLO, lot's of great info her to address your many questions. I'd encourage you to read up on threads in the Room Acoustics and ML Placement sub-forum. My posts especially

I'll do another reply addressing the x-over question, but first, I'll try and address some of the others.

givmedew said:

Too close to the wall
What options do I have if they have to stay this close? I was playing around with putting blankets on the wall just to see the difference. Bottom line... I can't pull them out very far as my living room is tiny, also the walls open up to open space directly to the outside of the speakers. So there isn't much more all and I wonder what would happen if they had no wall to reflect off of (this could be an option maybe)

Click to expand...

Given your placement constraints, I'll recommend you put high-quality absorption on the wall just behind them, if on a budget, look into the DIY absorbers based on 4" thick Owens-Corning Fiberglass. Space this 2 or 3" off the wall. You are looking for good absorption in the 300Hz on up range. Do NOT use any 'limp-mass' (plastic) in those, you want to absorb as much HF as possible.
Combined with the digital x-over moving the x-over point to 550Hz, you will be removing a lot of the mid-bass killing rear-wave cancellation.

givmedew said:

Imaging
Right now... Not perfect but the room is hard to work around.. Anyways sounds that are centered seem to come from an imaginary center channel well enough that I had to make sure center was turned off. As for the entire soundstage... Well it's not there yet.

The questions about the Cross-over is my biggest question though and second would be what I can do to compensate for them being too close to the wall.

I don't plan on doing the cross-over right away or even in 3 months but I need to plan these things out in advance. I make minimum wage so projects have to be planned out. Equipment traded or sold.

I need to know no: what internal changes will need to be made to use an active external cross-over like the behringer units. Does it require me to keep my 5CH B&K or get a 2nd identical 2CH to match my bigger amp or can I mix and match 2CH amps?

Click to expand...

The acoustic treatment mentioned above will help a lot with the imaging.

As for amps, no need to have identical amps for panel and woofers. Use the big 2Ch B&K on the panels, and 2 channels from the 5Ch amp for the woofers.

Since this is likely to go on for a bit, please open a new thread under the DIY forum. BTW- there already a couple of X-over mod /replacement threads there, do read those to lear more.

Given your budget, that Behringer will be fine, it's well supported by REW the audio analysis app. You do have that right? If not get it, learn it, you'll need it

The high-pass crossover in the Aerius is totally removed, only some impedance load resistors will be left in place. The low pass is 100% ditched, you wire up straight to the woofer terminals.

Got to run, so I'll post more in that thread. In the meantime, do read my center channel build thread in my signature, it will answer many of your questions.

Thanks a lot guys... I did start this in the mod thread but a moderator moved it likely because of the title

I have read over 10HRs before the original post and probably another 5 after.

How do I know how many resistors I need for my amp? What statistics for my amplifiers would help me understand that? What is the downside of those resistors? Do they just cause a small dip in the high frequency somewhere?

Second to last question: I bought the behringer... Will I still need a feedback destroyer for my sub or will this do some of the same functions

Last question: what microphone should I buy? I don't want to spend a lot of money on it... also I already own an analog RadioShack dB meter. How much better is a $100-150 corrected (or whatever it's called) microphone vs buying a decent microphone and correcting my RadioShack dB meter and then selling the other mic once I have done that?


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givmedew said:

... How do I know how many resistors I need for my amp? What statistics for my amplifiers would help me understand that? What is the downside of those resistors? Do they just cause a small dip in the high frequency somewhere?

Click to expand...

I'd say either whatever is already in place in the Aerius (in terms of paralleled 1 Ohm resistors) would be fine, otherwise three 1 Ohm 20W paralled will work.

givmedew said:

Second to last question: I bought the behringer... Will I still need a feedback destroyer for my sub or will this do some of the same functions

Click to expand...

the DCX2496 can do a three way with mono sum of the sub channel IIRC, so you should be able to do it all in just the one box, but you use a receiver, so it can do the LFE. In which case, you might still want to keep the BFD.

givmedew said:

Last question: what microphone should I buy? I don't want to spend a lot of money on it... also I already own an analog RadioShack dB meter. How much better is a $100-150 corrected (or whatever it's called) microphone vs buying a decent microphone and correcting my RadioShack dB meter and then selling the other mic once I have done that?

Click to expand...

A decent mic is a *must have* for a project like this, luckily, there are some nice, low-cost options thee days, for $75, you can't go wrong with the UMIK-1 https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1

Here's how to use it with REW: https://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/umik-1-setup-with-rew



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JonFo said:

I'd say either whatever is already in place in the Aerius (in terms of paralleled 1 Ohm resistors) would be fine, otherwise three 1 Ohm 20W paralled will work.



the DCX2496 can do a three way with mono sum of the sub channel IIRC, so you should be able to do it all in just the one box, but you use a receiver, so it can do the LFE. In which case, you might still want to keep the BFD.



A decent mic is a *must have* for a project like this, luckily, there are some nice, low-cost options thee days, for $75, you can't go wrong with the UMIK-1 https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1

Here's how to use it with REW: https://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/umik-1-setup-with-rew



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Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

So,

I got the DCX2496, made all my cables, UMIK-1 came in and I have started to play with things...

I suppose the first problem I have noticed is that when I do a test sweep although it is NO surprise that my bass is all over the place I have A HUGE drop on in volume in the 56,57,58,59hz area. We are talking 10dB between 53 down to 57 and then back up by the time we get to 61. There are some problem areas but this is the biggest one. My subwoofer on its own and the martin logans both have this area issue... I almost didn't believe it so I ran a tone generator and used my radioshack meter and same results.

Can someone look at the pictures of my room and tell me if there is anything I can do about this? I moved the subwoofer to left of the left speaker, middle left, middle right, and then just for the fun of it I put it in the middle of the room and ran a sweep. It changed a little bit each time I moved it but it always had this huge dent of 10dB or more centered on 57hz and only for a few hz.