CLSii honest opinions from owners

Hi guys.

The thing is that I got a pair of CLS2 very cheap -couple of years ago-, that need new panels... The new panels run for around$2500 through martin logan... Love their looks and would use them mainly for accoustic jazz, jazz trios and female/jazz vocals..

If i listen to them now, they are too flat and the midrange is not that great...

Since they are that old, and I haven't heard them in their full glory.... Can you, cls owners, tell me:

1- what should I expect from them with new panels? I had before electromotions, sl3 and odyssey... Heard ethos a couple of times but somehow preferred the older logans... Looking for transparency and magic in the midrange...

2- what amps work best with cls2?

3- how are they for low volume listening at night?

Note1- the "lack of bass" non issue for me
Note2- i am looking for a secondary speakers for the type of music I pointed out earlier in the post for when "in the mood" of some "martin logan magic"

Thanks a lot!

Honest opinions are the only opinions worth having. Though they sound like bad news most of the time. I have some good news and some bad news for you.

First, the good news. Before spending on new panels try shower cleaning the old panels. I tried shower cleaning my panels after 26 years after all hope was lost. I had nothing to lose. Luckily for me and thanks to members who suggested shower cleaning the results of shower cleaning were wonderful indeed.

Now the bad news. In the CLS models the CLS 2 are not good because they lack the wonderful live mid-range magic of the CLS 1 version 2 and CLS 2z. A major problem used to exist for users during the time when they were being manufactured was to find a suitable amplifier to drive them. Suitable for cls 2 was also very expensive. The problem is that CLS 2 have a resistance rating of approx. 0.6 ohms for 20 hertz frequency.

Some more good news is that these days a suitable amplifier to drive CLS 2 is available and as far as high end prices are concerned is reasonably priced. Though reasonable in price is a relative concept. The amplifier I would recommend is the Sanders ESL Mark 2 stereo power amp. This amp is stable down to 0.3 ohms.

Good for low volume listening at night. However, low volume listening not much fun. Moderate volume listening at night, more fun, and does not disturb the neighbors because the CLS panel sound does not carry far and since during the winter season audio room doors and windows are closed.

Conclusion
First, if possible, please shower clean your panels. Second buy Sander's amplifier for amp is very good value in return for money spent. Comes with a lifetime warranty.

If you can keep the volume down, then it may be possible to stretch the life of a dull, worn out ESL by using a bit of top end boost, such as DSP. But one should not apply full power to a poorly working ESL, or its step-up transformer or xo will get hot and burn out.

Thank you both for the insights... I already showered the panels without luck (they are from 1992 according to their serial number -if my memory serves me well-...

Will give them more thought...


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bsandovalb said:

Thank you both for the insights... I already showered the panels without luck (they are from 1992 according to their serial number -if my memory serves me well-...

Will give them more thought...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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If the panels have been shower cleaned and are dust free and still the sound is flat, mid-range not involving but importantly there is no distortion in sound. Then this may be amplifier issue. CLS 2 are very difficult to drive and require a refined and very powerful amplifier to sound at their best.

Hola Bernardo. The coat of the panels at that time, was made by Martin Logan, using their old formula. This formula had some issues as the ones that you are having. I do know that there is a person in the US that are fixing this problem with new conductive material, and its not too expensive as buying new panels. You have to send the panels to them and bringing them back to Costa Rica. I think it would be as expensive as buying new panels, and I do not know the warranty for them, once had being fixed.

Keep in mind that, if you buy new panels from the factory, they do come with five year warranty and the new coat adhesive is similar of their latest panels. The panels life span is thousand time better than the old type.

this is their new technology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnkpGBFyQAA

Hola Roberto, gracias!

yes I am aware of the new technology, Dana explained me the new panels and assured I would be surprised of the improvement

M15,

I tried them with ARC hd220, still sounded flat...


Would the new Bel Canto ref600m work??, heard great things about them and their ncore on this new product.... Anyone heard them?!

M15 said:

Now the bad news. In the CLS models the CLS 2 are not good because they lack the wonderful live mid-range magic of the CLS 1 version 2 and CLS 2z.

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Is this true?? I've not heard this before... Never had the pleasure of hearing any variant of the CLS line.

TomDac said:

Is this true?? I've not heard this before... Never had the pleasure of hearing any variant of the CLS line.

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ML claimed three significant improvements for the CLS2, which was released in January 1989.

Better bass extension and definition.
Better high frequency extension and naturalness.
Improved efficiency and power handling capability.
Improved reliability.

Relative strengths and weaknesses of CLS 1 and 2 discussed in issue 68 of TAS.

On the weakness side it was felt that CLS2 was harder to drive and suffered from a loss of immediacy.

Upgrading a pair of CLS2 to 2A costs $150. This change moves the sound of the CLS back toward more of the midrange immediacy of the original CLS1.

For the CLS2A to perform optimally, great care must be exercised in the selection of a matching amplifier. Low-powered tube amps ideal choice for CLS1, solid state amplifiers from companies like Krell and Classe may actually be a better match in a number of situations with the CLS2A.

Conclusion:

The CLS2A is indeed a better speaker than the original CLS 1. ML redesigned CLS 1 and gave us CLS2, whose impedance load did not stretch so far into double digit ohms (good) but dropped so low that it drove many amplifier nuts (bad). CLS2 required greater amplifier power (bad). One of the originals captivating strengths was its sense of immediacy (good). But in tackling the load, the 2 somehow lost a great deal of immediacy (bad). The 2A recaptured some of the CLS1 immediacy (good).

Relative to the original- the 2A had significantly improved deep bass extension, better mid bass articulation, a more extended treble and a minimized upper-midrange glare.

The reason I stated that CLS 2 was not good was because it lacked immediacy compared to CLS1 and 2z. And CLS 2 resistance is below a single digit and CLS2A resistance is 0.6 ohms. Therefore in most cases in beginning 90s, less powerful and less heavy and therefore less expensive amplifier can drive CLS1 but not CLS2 or CLS2A.

FINAL CONCLUSION:

Thanks TomDac for persuading me to clarify this issue. After this research the member should definitely buy new panels with the new adhesive and hence longer life. I got the above info from stereophile magazine reviews of CLS range of speakers.

For my $2500 I would choose a different option, such as sending them to Russ in Ohio or even Reiner in Germany for refurb. In fact getting new panels from ML at their INSANE prices would be my LAST choice.

Tosh said:

For my $2500 I would choose a different option, such as sending them to Russ in Ohio or even Reiner in Germany for refurb. In fact getting new panels from ML at their INSANE prices would be my LAST choice.

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Tosh,

Please read post by Roberto, especially the last two sentences about factory panels.

If the member can afford ARC HD 220 that retails for approx. 9K. He may be able to buy factory panels for 2.5k.

I do understand that you are trying to save money but these factory panels will have a longer life.

Longer life makes up for the higher price.

M15 said:

Tosh,

Please read post by Roberto, especially the last two sentences about factory panels.

If the member can afford ARC HD 220 that retails for approx. 9K. He may be able to buy factory panels for 2.5k.

I do understand that you are trying to save money but these factory panels will have a longer life.

Longer life makes up for the higher price.

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Agreed Rehan ………...

twich54 said:

Agreed Rehan ………...

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Thanks Dave for agreeing. Dave I did not mean to target you specifically in my thread “Hunting season closed permanently”. I know you like venison. Who doesn’t? I implore you to think out of the box and quit hunting excursions. All I am requesting is to not eat bird, mammals and also fish. There are so many other tasty edible items that can be enjoyed instead.

From today I am strictly on a no meat diet. This will also be my New Year’s resolution that is not to eat any bird, fish or mammal during year 2016. I hope my resolve does not weaken as time flows by.

I am sorry if my post upset you.

Thanks M15 for such detailed info re CLS!....

Tosh, it would be almost equally expensive for me to send panels for refurb, since I am from Costa Rica, therefore, Roberto is right, it would be better to buy new panels and have not only the new technology but also the 5 years warranty....

M15 said:

Dave I did not mean to target you specifically in my thread “Hunting season closed permanently”. I am sorry if my post upset you.

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Rehan, no worries at all, trust me I'm plenty 'thick skinned'. As for me giving up meat, sorry ………. not gonna happen. But to those that choose not to eat meat, that's fine with me.

Alright……………. back on track, Tosh, get those CLS's singin' !!!

TomDac said:

Is this true?? I've not heard this before... Never had the pleasure of hearing any variant of the CLS line.

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Had the CLS 2A's for several years. To answer your question, NO.

The original "Ones", which I heard, were certainly livelier but too bright and lacked midrange body by most people's accounts.

Transparent, you bet. Fatiguing, you bet.

To the OP, you will want a high current, powerful (wattage) solid state amp to drive those puppies. Unknown if Sanders is the "magic bullet". Try before you buy.

GG

I've been using my hotrodded/modified CLS IIz for 15 YEARS now. I still haven't heard clearer sounding speakers than mine yet. I'm gonna keep using them till I depart from this world.

Gordon Gray said:

Had the CLS 2A's for several years. To answer your question, NO.

The original "Ones", which I heard, were certainly livelier but too bright and lacked midrange body by most people's accounts.

Transparent, you bet. Fatiguing, you bet.

To the OP, you will want a high current, powerful (wattage) solid state amp to drive those puppies. Unknown if Sanders is the "magic bullet". Try before you buy.

GG

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I agree with Gordon the answer to TomDac's question is no, not true.

The member has CLS2 not CLS2A. I was referring to CLS2. When CLS2 is upgraded to CLS2A the midrange is more like CLS1 and CLS2z.

Perhaps you listened to not run in CLS1 with solid state power amp using previous generation bipolar transistors. This would explain the bright and fatiguing sound. Vocals both male and female, for example, Amore by Andrea Bocelli and Joan Baez in concert, sound amazing on my CLS1 ver2. And I use a basic integrated amplifier not high end at all. After 2 decades of using CLS1 and 7 years by the first owner and now with a 3 time repaired basic integrated amp may be said that the midrange lacks body. Though it sounds fair enough to me.

I have only had the pleasure of listening to my CLS1 ver2. Not any other variant of CLS.

The Sanders may be just right for the CLS2. But I would agree with Gordon, if possible, please try before you buy.

Have fun listening to music.:music:

Gordon Gray said:

Had the CLS 2A's for several years. To answer your question, NO.

The original "Ones", which I heard, were certainly livelier but too bright and lacked midrange body by most people's accounts.

Transparent, you bet. Fatiguing, you bet.

To the OP, you will want a high current, powerful (wattage) solid state amp to drive those puppies. Unknown if Sanders is the "magic bullet". Try before you buy.

GG

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Gordon,

Thanks for your constructive critique. Will prevent readers from being misled.