Sources and the EICO ST-70

MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum

Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Humble-Cinema

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2015
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Location
Winfield, Kansas
Hello! I was wondering if anyone has had any experience using the EICO ST-70 with their Martin Logan Electrostatic speakers? I am looking to get one as I have a friend who says Tube amps are in a totally different ball park than Solid State amps, and that watts don't matter as much for tubes as it does for SS. The ST-70 pushes 35watts per channel into stereo, and I was wondering if any of you could help me understand how that will translate against my ONKYO 838 which pushes close to 250watts into 4Ohm. Thanks for all of your help and advise.

Jacob
 
Update: While I have not had a chance to talk to someone who really knows a lot about Tube amps, I ended up getting the amp and testing it out. After many hours of Jazz, Funk, Classic Rock, and a few other kinds of music I tend to agree that Tubes have a unique sound. The EICO ST-70 has PLEANTY of power for the Sources as I typically stop increasing the volume around the 2 on the 9 level volume knob. If I sound like I don't know what I'm talking about then you would be right as I am just in the beginning stages of learning anything about Mid-Fi let alone Hi-Fi. Thanks and happy listening!

Jacob
 
Hola Jacob. I am also a tube guy. The specs of the tube amps are more humble than the specs of the SS. Also, there are members here that they love the sound of a good SS over the tube amps. And I respect that.

Sound quality its a matter of liking. Like the food. And the taste of SS to my ears its not so bad, even knowing that their specs are better than any tube. Why is this? Its has to do the harmonic distortion. The distortion that the tube amp has, is even, and the distortion of the SS is odd. Our ears are made for even distortion, and the harmonic structure of the musical instruments, human voice, etc, that have a lot of different timbre is due to this even harmonic distortion and here is where we can agreed or not. The odd distortion, 3,5,7 is present in the SS and the tube harmonic distortion is 2,4,6, etc.

The warmth, and the sound produced by the tubes is more lay-back than the SS. Also, because the SS output impedance is so low, that there is no need for an output transformer, thing that its necessary with tubes. There are designs in tubes were there is not an output transformers. The transformer acts a impedance match from the high impedance of the output tubes (circa 4K Ohms) to the impedance of the speaker's (typically from 2 Ohms to 16 ohms). You will find usually at the tube amp, the tab at the speaker's terminal, to match this impedance better. But the quality of the transformer must be very good. On these days, the quality of this transformer is very, very good...and the frequency response of a good amp, goes beyond the 20KHz! (our ear's threshold limit).



Also, the sound that its produced by the SS in general way of speaking, is more "precise" at the overall stage presentation. On the other hand, the tubes wattage is different ( and here I know that I am going to be nailed ). How is this? A Watt its a measurement! Think of this, a pony horse its horse too, but you can not do a comparison if you put a big horse pulling a weight vs this pony. Its has to do with the Joules at the power supply. Usually the voltage applied to the plate of the output tubes its around 500 Volts, and the collector voltage of the SS is around 70 Volts. Here, you need a lot of huge capacitance at the power supply to have a lot of energy storage and to have a lot of headroom.

So, who is right? Let your ears always decide. Trust your ears, not in the specs. If you liked your Dyna ST-70, using the EL-34/6CA7 output tubes, and delivering only 35 Watts/channel to drive your ML speakers, that's OK.

The volume knob its just that. A knob where you can adjust the level that you want for a certain signal that its applied at the input of your preamp. No matter what, your amp will be with a total power of 35watts/channel. The knob acts like an accelerator in a car. You are able to change gears, and also to push more gas, the the size of the car's motor remains the same.

Again, trust your ears! They are the final judges. Remember that what I do like, not necessary must be your liking! Happy listening!
 
Thanks for all of the help on understanding Tubes amps and SS amps. That does make sense to me as the sound from the Tube amp seems to carry farther at the same volume compared to the SS. I know technically that might not be the case in terms of numbers but in my humble cinema (12'x15') the difference seems noticeable particularly for lower frequencies. I was really excited to get a tube amp at the recommendation of a friend (who knows much more than I) but besides that "fuller" sound that you mentioned and the power difference (kicks my Onkyo's ass) I cannot say I prefer one to the other. Each amp has its place and I feel like I will use them independently for what they excel at. I guess the next step is to try and find a truly analog signal i.e. a turntable or high end cd player, to hear the deeper nuance between the two amps. Getting into this audio stuff is addictive and expensive, but worth it! Thanks again!!
 
Back
Top