Will a Bi-wire speaker cable improve my ML "Vantage" Speaker W/ own sub?????

Will a Bi-wire speaker cable improve my ML "Vantage" Speaker W/ own sub?????

Hello,

I have a pair of Martin Logan Vantage speakers and I am looking to upgrade my speaker cable. I have always had my speakers
bi-wired, but recently a salesperson was telling me that I would not hear a difference in sound quality if I purchased a speaker
cable pair that in "Non-Biwired" because my speakers have a powered sub and its own crossovers. Is this true? If it is, Then I plan on purchasing
Audioquest CV8. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt

Bi-wiring does nothing except part you with your money. In your case since the Vantage has powered woofers so even passive bi-amping wouldn't do anything either since it's more or less done that internally anyway. Save your money and don't buy Audioquest. I know this is a controversial subject on this forum about wiring but I don't care, spend the money you would on AQ with room treatments which is something that'll actually improve SQ if you want to spend money for better SQ.

All it will do is transfer money from you to them.

Matt00 said:

Hello,

I have a pair of Martin Logan Vantage speakers and I am looking to upgrade my speaker cable. I have always had my speakers
bi-wired, but recently a salesperson was telling me that I would not hear a difference in sound quality if I purchased a speaker
cable pair that in "Non-Biwired" because my speakers have a powered sub and its own crossovers. Is this true? If it is, Then I plan on purchasing
Audioquest CV8. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt

Click to expand...

If you're going to buy AQ cables, stick to the cheaper stuff. All my stuff is AQ mainly for the quality of the cable itself. I don't believe it does much for improving sound quality, but they are really well put together and a bit more durable.

Now...bi-amping. I've seen first hand the advantages of doing this if you're a bit shy on power. But...I'm not sure why your speakers would have two sets of posts if you have a powered sub.

TDIMike said:

Now...bi-amping. I've seen first hand the advantages of doing this if you're a bit shy on power. But...I'm not sure why your speakers would have two sets of posts if you have a powered sub.

Click to expand...

Mike, it's the same reason Harman, the current paradigm of scientific method as applied to speaker design, uses them: Marketing.

On my old Ascents (non-powered woofer) bi-wiring with dissimilar cable made a difference I know I could measure with a test mic.

I can measure system FR changes with tube rolling easily.

It was unexpectedly quite profound. Try multi-strand on the bass and solid core on the panel.

User211 said:

On my old Ascents (non-powered woofer) bi-wiring with dissimilar cable made a difference I know I could measure with a test mic.
................................................

Click to expand...

That's not an easy measurement to make. If while changing the cables, the loudspeaker or the test mic, gets move an inch the response will be different. Heck, moving near-by furniture or humans will change the response.

I always relate cables of any kind to water pipes.. The bigger the pipes are, the more water can flow thru them, providing the water pump (amplifier) has the ability to push more water thru.

I would think that since bi-wiring means using more cables (ie more pipes), you should hear some improvements in sound, no? Unless the construction of the bi-wire cables is vastly inferior to the wires they're replacing...

Well no.
Audio signals are not like water. The woofer only deals with low frequency current and the tweeter only with high frequency. The woofer is concerned with the end-to-end cable impedance at low frequencies and the tweeter at high frequencies. So splitting the cable into two cables doesn't change anything from the each driver's point of view.
Now how much will very large conductors (bi-wire or single wire) change the sound is a very different question.

Hi Guys,

May I share a little discovery. Was reading Sanders white paper on speaker cables for esl speakers. This got me very curious & I remembered
a Tnt-Audio diy FFRC diy speaker cable by Thorsten. I build mine using Belden Cat 5E. For those with passive ML speakers pls try it, it cost
peanuts but what you get in return will surprise you.

Cheers

Speedskater said:

That's not an easy measurement to make. If while changing the cables, the loudspeaker or the test mic, gets move an inch the response will be different. Heck, moving near-by furniture or humans will change the response.

Click to expand...

Nah it is dead easy. You just put the mic on a stable base, do two FR runs with no changes in position and observe the variance, which is minuscule usually. Then roll some tubes and do it again - hey presto quite a marked variance.

User211 said:

Nah it is dead easy. You just put the mic on a stable base, do two FR runs with no changes in position and observe the variance, which is minuscule usually. Then roll some tubes and do it again - hey presto quite a marked variance.

Click to expand...

An inefficient, quasi-random and not inexpensive process, Justin. Using a few buttons in my pre/pro, I can do the same thing with far greater predictability and precision.

If one also wants to inject some distortion into the mix, I can't do that.

The mic was £70 Ken, the s/w free. How much was that pre

Distortion? Guitarist's spend a fortune on amps that distort well - it'd be rude not to join the party.

User211 said:

The mic was £70 Ken, the s/w free. How much was that pre

Click to expand...

~Two bestest Lampi's, but it comes with 8 DACs!

Thanks everyone for your input, but we are getting off topic!
In regard to these speakers, will a biwire cable make much of a difference?

Matt00 said:

Hello,

I have a pair of Martin Logan Vantage speakers and I am looking to upgrade my speaker cable. I have always had my speakers
bi-wired, but recently a salesperson was telling me that I would not hear a difference in sound quality if I purchased a speaker
cable pair that in "Non-Biwired" because my speakers have a powered sub and its own crossovers. Is this true? If it is, Then I plan on purchasing
Audioquest CV8. Any insight is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt

Click to expand...

Hola Matt. No, it will not do any change for good, why? Your Vantage model already has a built in power amplifier for the bass. There is no benefit with bi-wired. Why you have the possibility to do it? Because when the model came out some time ago, must audiophiles had bi-wired cables, so this is the only and unique reason why you have them. If you want a good performance from your Vantages, just use a heavier gauge wire...your ears will tell the difference. If you can not tell, then the ones that you are using are good cables. Happy listening!

Being that the Vantage has an amp for the woofer, and the panel is passive requiring an external power amp, doesn't that constitute a hybrid biamp-over-single-wire?

No, because there is a crossover point.

When you use a bi-wired configuration, the woofer is usually free from the crossover...also, the benefit is for your amplifier, having more speaker gauge cable to drive the bass notes and the stat panels. The panels of course, will have the crossover point.

When you have a built in power amp for the woofer, your amplifier does not reads the woofer's load...this load usually circa the 3000 ohms!. Your amp see this as an open circuit. So, there is no benefit bi-wiring the Vantage. On the new Martin Logan models like the Ethos, and the Montis, there is no bi-wired possibility. There is no benefit at all!. Happy listening!

I was trying to make a minor point, and apparently wasn't clear enough.

When I said biamp-over-single-wire, I meant that the internal amp is powering the low end, and the external amp is powering the upper end, - two amps - one wire. So, I think we're in agreement aren't we? No reason to use more than one wire because two amps are already working separately and effectively, so I don't see any reason to bring a second wire into the mix.