Some interesting words about Tidal

http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/6523983/behind-scenes-tidal-stormy-launch-future-plans

I particularly like this comment:

Tidal and all the artists seem to be attacking Spotify and their low payout, but how about they target their real original bully - the record labels. There's a reason most artist profits have to come from touring. Isn't that as bad or worse than low streaming payouts?

They've been screwing the artists historically.

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Adam,

Do you know if Tidal is going to use the new Meridian / Bob Stuart digital encode / decode process?

Gordon

Gordon Gray said:

Adam,

Do you know if Tidal is going to use the new Meridian / Bob Stuart digital encode / decode process?

Gordon

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As in MLP as used on DVD-A? I can't imagine they would but I don't know Gordon.

Adam,

It's called MQA. Supposed to offer same benefits as hi-res using storage space required for RB CD's.

Gordon Gray said:

Adam,

It's called MQA. Supposed to offer same benefits as hi-res using storage space required for RB CD's.

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Ahh - MQA - that's a bit new isn't it? Is there even any commercially available hardware as yet? I thought it was still under development. Again, answer is I don't know.

I'm not sure I understand where you're going with this Gordon. Tidal is already streaming in 16/44.1 without using MQA. Are you wondering if by using MQA they could stream Hi-Rez?

I experience some dropouts when listening to Tidal on my phone when walking or biking (likely just due to cellular coverage). I've never had any issues at home either using the Tidal ap or when I stream through Sonos - but I have heard that others have. I should think Tidal would be addressing those dropouts before they would start investigating streaming Hi-Rez files. To the best of my knowledge Tidal is the only outfit streaming at normal Redbook resolution, so it's not like they have to beat the competition yet.

As of mid-January:

Already, several companies are supporting or are in discussions to support MQA. Following an announcement of support by 7digital in December 2014, other companies already in advanced discussions include:

• Imagination Technologies and its Caskeid wireless multi-room audio IP platform
• Onkyo, the Japanese electronics giant
• Arcam, the British hi-fi manufacturer
• TIDAL, the high fidelity music streaming service from the Aspiro Group, currently available in U.S, U.K. and Canada. TIDAL was streaming MQA files in demos at CES through the updated Meridian Sooloos digital media system.

http://www.cepro.com/article/meridian_on_new_mqa_lossless_audio_format_artist_authenticated/

Last night I was streaming tracks from TIDAL and comparing them to ripped to FLAC CDs played via JRiver.

I was pumping the TIDAL raw data output into JRiver using the JRiver 20 WMA driver, in order to eliminate any s/w processing differences.

Logic tells me these should sound the same. The ripped CDs definitely seemed to sound noticeably better. I think TIDAL sounds better than Quobuz (I had that for a few months). By itself (TIDAL output to Async USB driver just like playing ripped to FLAC CDs via JRiver to the same Async USB driver), there is a more marked difference.

If these things really are what they say they are why don't they sound the same as ripped CDs? Perplexed? I am. Or maybe I am deluded/imagining it.

Fact is though without the source code it is hard to know what these s/w programs are really up to.

User211 said:

Perplexed? I am..

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There is the possibility of different masters in different markets or at different times.

Also level matching and normalisation.

Without capturing the Tidal stream and checksuming it against your ripped copy you would not know.

I did capture the Qobuz (spelt right this time) USB output a while back and compared it to a CD. Very different but deciphering it means hours looking at specs. No thanks.

User211 said:

. Very different

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Then it's not going to sound the same.

but deciphering it means hours looking at specs. No thanks.

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Step 1. A checksum takes 1 second and will tell you if they are identical or not
Step 2. You can use a bit comparison utility which will make it very easy. BSDiff, Windiff, etc.

It is not that easy Adam. I did use a file comparison utility. The trouble is you do not know what is protocol information, and what is data, unless you spend time deciphering the spec. Trust me I've spent years working on various computer protocols on and off - just not USB.

Plus you are right they may normalise the data. What really struck me about the Qobuz USB port captures was what looked like a massive influx of zeros, where the CD rips did not contain anywhere near as much. I'd have thought there was too many zeros in the Qobuz data for it not to be inside audio data sections of the protocol.

I've not bothered capturing TIDAL data but it is definitely better sounding than Qobuz IMHO.

User211 said:

Plus you are right they may normalise the data. What really struck me about the Qobuz USB port captures was what looked like a massive influx of zeros,

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I guess the lesson here is that "lossless" streaming is not "bitperfect" streaming.

Just because they use a particular format, doesn't mean they are exploiting that format to deliver what they could.

My only real concern was is Qobuz really what they say it is? From what I was hearing I was very sceptical.