streamers vs spinners

MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum

Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.

timm

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
2,085
Reaction score
6
Hi all....

So - my question is basic and it involves sound quality between a decent disc spinner vs a streamer with a decent dac..... I have had a squeezebox touch for quite awhile - and have used it for convenience purposes -- and just hook it up analog outs straight to my pre..... It sounds decent... but not as good as my denon 5900... So, now with all of these dsd dacs coming out etc... My question is basically - could I get as good - if not better sound from the streamer w dac vs just the spinner.... I am not worried about convenience etc... just the sound quality....
I am considering taking the leap..... ripping everything..... getting a good dac etc..... but would be disappointed if the improvements were marginal considering the work involved.... Now, if there were any improvements whatsoever - then I still think I would be worth it considering the future trends etc..

I know Tom is currently doing his own test vs his newly acquired Oppo.... but would like to hear other's opinions.... experiences etc....thanks tim.
 
I sold my Esoteric DV-50s this past year in favor of running all of my digital from my Mac Mini into my AURALiC Vega DAC. I rip everything to the Mini, or download from various sites. I will probably add the Oppo BDP-105D myself at some point because I still want to be able to play Blu-Ray (when I add a projector to my room), Mch. SACD, HDCD etc., but I'm not in a rush to do so as I really don't feel like I'm missing anything right now. Motivators for me were sound quality first, convenience, and the goal of gradual downsizing. I'm gradually letting go of physical media (except my vinyl collection), because in my system I believe delivery off my computer sounds better. Not to say that SOTA players don't have their merit, I'm just no longer interested in chasing after players that cost as much as a car.

I started this transition a few years ago when I got a Sonos setup. Migrating to higher resolution files, including DSD, pushed me over the edge and I haven't looked back.
 
Awesome Tim. And I know the esoteric is no slouch. Thanks Tim.
 
I still consider my Squeezebox Touch with digital output to my Bel Canto DAC 3.5 mkII to be state of the art, especially running the EDO plug-in (enhanced digital output) which enables up to 24/192 FLAC. It's as good as (arguably better) than using my Oppo BDP 95 as a transport feeding the same DAC. The overall convenience (simple software, smartphone and tablet remote control, synchronized whole house music with other Squeezebox devices, etc. etc.) make this approach a no-brainer. The Touch can also handle DSD playback (DSD over PCM) if paired with a DSD capable DAC. Personally, I haven't bothered with DSD, as I don't think it will survive long term as a viable format.
 
Sleepy. Do u know if the sbt will stream 24/192 or 24/96 ? Same question goes for hooking up an external hard drive to its USB port. In other words will it take files via wifi and USB and pass them to the dac. Second question - what does it do w these files if u r just using the sbt internal dac?

And one more for good measure - are there any negative impacts using external USB hard drives connected to the network off the router vs the internal HD on the computer?

Thanks.

Thanks Tim
 
The SBT can handle 24/96 off-the-shelf, but you need to install Triode's free EDO plug-in to play up to 24/192 FLAC files (link... http://forums.slimdevices.com/showt...tal-Output-app-USB-Dac-and-192k-Digital-Ouput). I'm not sure if you can hook an external USB drive to the SBT. Would probably be better to hook the drive to whichever computer you're running Logitech Music Server (LMS) on. Personally, I keep my music on a remote NAS and point LMS to that specific directory. Once indexed, it's virtually instantaneous to access albums or playlists, as well as Internet Radio streams.
 
Personally, I haven't bothered with DSD, as I don't think it will survive long term as a viable format.

I think the SACD format (from a worldwide perspective) is here to stay for a long time. It's a niche market that's well established. Especially in classical and, to a lesser extent, jazz genre.

That's why I just bought new SACD CDP.

There are some folks that really don't want to go the computer route. And for good reasons. I'm one of them.

GG
 
I think the SACD format (from a worldwide perspective) is here to stay for a long time. It's a niche market that's well established. Especially in classical and, to a lesser extent, jazz genre.

That's why I just bought new SACD CDP.

There are some folks that really don't want to go the computer route. And for good reasons. I'm one of them.

GG

I agree with your assessment that SACD (and by default DSD) is here to stay Gordon. Speaking to folks who master DSD recordings at the launch of the PS Audio Direct Stream DAC last year, they have been looking to expand as demand has exceeded their capacity. I'd also just read (but will need to go verify my source) that DSD actually represents the fastest growing segment of Hi Rez downloads, partially fueled by the growing number of DSD capable DAC's at every price point.

I also understand your position with regard to your recent purchase of a state of the art player. I do believe that from a cost/performance ratio computer based music offers the most bang for the buck. True state of the art players may offer some level of additional performance, but with regard to absolute performance there are certainly diminishing returns, not the least of which is the realization that the rest of ones system would need to be sufficiently resolving as to appreciate the subtleties and nuances being presented. Not everyone has such a system or the means of obtaining one, which is why I believe that computer based music will continue to gain support. That and the fact that I think it sounds really great. My own Esoteric player while very good, was not at the level of your K-01. In my system I preferred the sound of my files streamed from my computer. If I plugged a K-01 into my system I may have a change of heart.
 
Last edited:
I think this is generational.

I had a few records but never missed them and then adopted CD's. Now I know piles of people who don't believe in any sort of hard media.

At this point I'm going to rip whatever I want from my CD's and a few SACD's and try to just purchase my music digitally. BTW I do understand it takes effort to actually rip an SACD properly. I'm looking into that right now and hope to have a working solution soon.

My OPPO 105D can wirelessly buffer all the music it needs to play without any issues. In fact it has a fairly large buffer and I bet it typically buffers entire tracks.

Bits are bits. If the music files have enough information in them to create a great sound it doesn't matter where the bits originate, but I think a remote or solid state drive is best. That way there is nothing moving except the speakers when I'm listening to music. No fans, no motors, just sweet electrostats and their mated woofers :)
 
Being the Neanderthal that I am……….I therefore ………spin !

Truth be told I have more than enough music in my collection to keep me happy and no desire to take the time to rip, zip or whatever. I have bought some downloaded music through HD Tracks, have it stored on my laptop, play it through the gizmo my son hooked up between my laptop and my LS-27. Life is good ………...
 
So I have downloaded foobar, it's associated plugin for DVDa , flac, and dvdaexplorer. I am finally ripping the stereo channel of my DVDa's that I stopped playing because it was such a pain to get to the stereo layer without a monitor. It is very cool. Hahaha!!! Next will be the plugin for 24/192 for squeezebox server. I'm fairly geeked. Not sure why but I feel like dr Frankenstein or something. It is ALIVE!!!! :)
 
I think the answer to your question depends a lot on the system as a whole. There are some DACs that are more independent of the digital source than others. The M-DAC is one of them and as such my Squeezebox system sounds as good as any other digital source i have tried in my system. I can discern no difference between driving the M-DAC with the Squeezebox or my SACD player.

My advice would be to buy a decent, buffering, independent-clocking DAC and continue to use your Squeezebox with confidence.
 
There are some folks that really don't want to go the computer route. And for good reasons. I'm one of them.

GG

I thought you were going the streaming route now Gordon? What was that post of yours the other day?

Regardless; I disagree with your assessment of SACD. It's a dead duck, and has been for about 10 years now. I don't think there is a single place in Australia that I could still buy an SACD, in fact I doubt there is any place that would know what an SACD was if I were to ask. CDs are following fast.

What is a good reason not to stream? I can't think of one, bar the initial effort to rip and tag. That being the case - we are audiophiles and the amount of money we have invested in our hardware/software pales to insignificance the amount you would have to pay someone to rip/tag for you (if that is what you wanted).
 
Last edited:
I like Lampi PCM better than other sources, and I like Lampi DSD better than Lampi PCM. Every few months there seems to be some good upsampling software being released. First it was Jriver, now it is HQPlayer. I use HQplayer, and blind tested two guys here. All preferred the upsampled DSD to the native PCM.

Most Lampi DSD users with HQP stream everything through the DSD circuit - native DSD, as well as upsampled DSD. Upsampling DSD is a form of DSP and as it is a software I expect it to only improve with time. Upsampling is best done outside the dac using such a software, rather than in the dac, IMO

You can get better quality with streamers, but for ease of use and plug and play, you need to pay. Try to buy an used Aurender x100 or Auralic Aries. I preferred the Aurender much more to my Sony SCD 9000ES, though the dCS Vivaldi transport sounds better than the Aurender. The UI of the Aurender was excellent. I still have to figure out if modded PCs are worth the cost if I go the Network Audio Adapter route, but those routes don't have good UI with the HQplayer, yet. But will do sometime.

I had been to a guy's house in Philly who has tweak OCD. He had a Techdas Air Force 1 TT in a highly customized Rives Audio room, so he knew what a good transport was. He Had EMM labs top of the line CD player going into his Meitner MA-2, and he replaced the CDP with a modded PC that cost $2k and blew away his $17k CDP.
 
Last edited:
At the end of the day we do this for enjoyment, so whatever makes it fun for us wins.

Some people love to touch vinyl and feel more connected to the music when there is physical contact with it.

I want music to be as convenient as possible and am too impatient to deal with looking for CD's or all the effort surrounding vinyl.

My wife will use Pandora most of the time because it is fun for her.

I'm still looking for the best way to organize and play music. I have a repository on my workstation and typically use my USB - DAC headphone amplifier and AKG 701's to listen when working, so it is currently more convenient for me to browse to my workstation just because that is where the music is.

However I have a computer that I typically only use for my RC flight simulator that has a USB cable to my OPPO 105D and I have the asyncronous USB driver installed along with Foobar on it. It can organize the music on any other device on my network into playlists. Unfortunately I never built that box to be quiet, so I may figure out how everything works on it, but it won't be my end game.

BTW I found out that I had to configure the OPPO's multimedia setup to be just 2 speakers for Netflix to default to stereo and not 5.1. when playing over just the TV the volume levels were extremely low until it thought it was stereo and having to set the audio preferences in Netflix every time was sort of a pain.
 
Last edited:
After I had a problem with my last CDP I looked at replacing it with another, and in the interim decided to use my Marantz CRW/CDP - a slot loader, so I have a concern about scratches, and need to replace it soon.

I don't have big bucks to spend, and have found (more so than LPs, for some reason) that I keep forgetting what CDs I have, so the logical thing is a server. I looked around at low-cost options others are using and kept coming up with a Mac Mini, used by no less than Roberto and Tim (MiTT) ! To that end I recently bought a used Audiolab MDAC, and in a few weeks, after returning from visiting Roberto in Costa Rica, will buy a Mac Mini.

Looking forward to spending two weeks in Costa Rica after about six weeks of extreme cold here. Hola Roberto!
 
Hola Bernard. This is our weather report for today: http://www.weather.com/weather/today/l/San+Jose+Costa+Rica+CSXX0009:1:CS Right now, our country is in the very dry season. Our vegetation is yellow color and looks very dry. We are having three months of any rain at all, only at the mountains that surround us here in San Jose, our Capital city. There are a dusty, windy and sunny days ahead.

On my mac mini, right now I had ripped 4504 CDs. I had bought some hi-rez CDs with outstanding results. I am aware that is I do play through my Bel Canto CD2 transport a CD and do a comparison against the mac, the CD2 is better, but also depends of the ripping format. Aiff format is very close to the original, and my M-DAC with the latest firmware, and having a Bel Canto Ref Link between the mac and the DAC, the results are astonishing. At this moment, I have three external hard discs. One with 4Teras for back-up. One with AIFF and hi-rez with 1Tera, and another with 2Teras with others ripping formats. These hard discs are for music only as well as my mac mini. It is a time saving, easy to use, and easy to listen way for my music. The access for it, and changing from one song to the other, from one artist to other, takes less than 2 seconds. I do love this feature. Welcome back Bernard and happy listening to all!
 
Are you ripping SACD's ? From what I've read it takes mods to a DVD drive or getting the "right" numbered drive off of a Playstation 3 to read them back at full resolution.
 
Hi Adam,

To clarify, I will stream using Tidal or another hi rez source within the next year or so. At this time, I don't intend to rip / store / playback my compact discs. May be fear due to my "low tech" background.

May investigate downloading / storing files from HD tracks, etc. Have read numerous comments about the quality versus the "silver disc". All over the map and no clear consensus from what I can tell.

GG
 
Are you ripping SACD's ? From what I've read it takes mods to a DVD drive or getting the "right" numbered drive off of a Playstation 3 to read them back at full resolution.

Check out the "SACD ripping project" thread in the Off Topic Audio / Video section of this forum.

Sounds like Mr Wicked is working on this.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top