Montis: I like them, but will they beat the Dynaudio C2 or even the C1?

Hi all,
As you know, i had posted my experience with a bunch of amplifiers and what i thought was the best match for the Montis. I am now contemplating the departure of the Montis and perhaps switching to a pair of Dynaudio C2 or even the C1. I had spoken to a former Summit X owner who made the switch and said the C2s are very easy to position and less prone to room problems or typical electrostatic room positioning. With that said,
has anyone made the jump maybe because they couldn't get their speakers to sound right in their room?
I have my Montis about 3 feet away from the back wall and my room is about 14ftx9x23 in width. i am about 12 feet away from the speakers and they are about 12 feet apart forming a perfect equilateral triangle. i have used the flashlight method to do the toe in as well. The speakers do sound good, but i am wondering how much better would a speaker without so many constraints would sound?
thank you in advance!

Hi silver,

No one can tell you what you will like.

Just like you can't tell us what amp is best for the Montis.

You seem to be someone who enjoys the "hunt" for nirvana and are constantly looking for something else to satisfy that need.

That's fine, of course, but a bit tiring and expensive IMHO.

FWIW the Montis, properly setup with the right gear, should sound incredible, not merely good.

Enjoy the ride.

GG

Gordon Gray said:

Hi silver,

No one can tell you what you will like.

Just like you can't tell us what amp is best for the Montis.

You seem to be someone who enjoys the "hunt" for nirvana and are constantly looking for something else to satisfy that need.

That's fine, of course, but a bit tiring and expensive IMHO.

FWIW the Montis, properly setup with the right gear, should sound incredible, not merely good.

Enjoy the ride.


GG

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I understand. I actually have been reading some of your posts regarding the perfect distance from the wall. You claim it to me about 5 feet off the wall. That being said, what about the rake angle ? Toe in? Equilateral triangle ? Can you share some of your personal experience with positioning these speakers ?

Hi silver,

Based on some 25 years of experience with four different ML models, 60" or so from the panel to the back wall seems to work quite well. And it's not only me. Others have tried this with much success. Seems to be the best place to optomize imaging, soundstage depth, and tonality.

Panel rake. Very near or vertical is my recommendation. Again, this is based on experience and has been confirmed by others. Can use the "string / plumb bob" method or buy a digital level.

Toe in. I'd start with the flashlight method so that reflection occurs with the "inner third" of the panel. Recommended by ML and others who have tried different positions. Key is to get solid center imaging while maximizing stage width. Vocals seem to be the easiest way to set but you can try some pink noise or other methods to confirm.

Back wall treatment. I don't favor absorption. Others like what it does. For me, it significantly compromises the "life and energy" of the musical presentation.

Powered bass driver adjustment. Very critical to get best sound. Too much bass or insufficient bass does impact everything.

Suffice to say I've done numerous hours of listening and the above guidelines have worked for me. Your Montis are very sensitive to all changes in position and it may take some time to find the "right" spot for you. Please make sure you measure distances and rake angle very carefully. It really does make an audible difference and the best thing is it's free expect for your time of course.

I would urge you to experiment. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Of course as with all things audio, YMMV.

Good luck and most importantly, have fun.

Best,

Gordon

PS: Vibration attenuation is also extremely important to fully realize performance.

Hunting for the right speaker is a fun thing, but before you change the Montis, listen to multitude of speakers. And either box swap at the same budget level of the Montis, or retain the Montis until you save enough for your dream speaker, and I will be really surprised if the Dynaudio is such a dream speaker. Also since you are looking at MCH, try to put in another Montis for the center and see how MCH classical sounds on it

Silver, first off, your speaker set up is wrong…… with room that's 14' wide you do not want your speakers placed 12' apart for starters. FWIW, my room dimensions are very close to yours (14'6" x 24'), my Spire's (predecessor to the Montis) are 7' apart and 42' off the wall behind them. Yes I'd like another foot behind them but room constraints at the opposite end preclude that.

Agreed my friend.

First, perhaps if you could elaborate on what you are missing from the Montis. That way, the people in here might be better off giving you advice.

The Dynaudios are very fine speakers, provided you have enough power to drive them. With a wimpy amplifier, they tend to lack dynamics, but with enough control from the amp, they really open up. The C1 works very well in small rooms, but the C2 requires more distance to the listener. The C2 also tend to warrant a somewhat high seating position, so make sure they will fit your furniture.

Dynaudio are among the very few speakers (IMHO) that almost match with stats in terms of clarity and naturalness. For me, I would choose the Montis, but perhaps your taste is different.

Again, if you let us know what displeases you with the Montis, we may better be able to guide you. And then, of cause, use Roberto's standard advice: "Trust your ears".

silver305 said:

Hi all,
As you know, i had posted my experience with a bunch of amplifiers and what i thought was the best match for the Montis. I am now contemplating the departure of the Montis and perhaps switching to a pair of Dynaudio C2 or even the C1. I had spoken to a former Summit X owner who made the switch and said the C2s are very easy to position and less prone to room problems or typical electrostatic room positioning. With that said,
has anyone made the jump maybe because they couldn't get their speakers to sound right in their room?
I have my Montis about 3 feet away from the back wall and my room is about 14ftx9x23 in width. i am about 12 feet away from the speakers and they are about 12 feet apart forming a perfect equilateral triangle. i have used the flashlight method to do the toe in as well. The speakers do sound good, but i am wondering how much better would a speaker without so many constraints would sound?
thank you in advance!

Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by constraints? It still has one of the best midrange, for those who like it, which I assume you do, since you bought it. You will find that midrange very hard to replace. The only constraint is it's not full range, but if you are not being bothered by the crossover (does it bother you every time you play music), you should have no problems. On the other hand, the woofer gives a great punch. You can go box of course, but see how you like boxes as compared to a planar. I am assuming you bought Montis for a reason, like I had bought my Summit

It's hard to say if the C2 or C1 are better, because we hear differently and we prioritize different sonic qualities over others.

I think you need to figure out what it is about the Montis that you are missing and go from there, rather than looking for an absolute answer to your question.

For me, I know what I'm looking for in a speaker... my only issue is that I found 2 that I really like.. and I can't decide. LOL..

Best of luck my friend.

With the right equipment, the Montis are probably one of the very best loudspeakers money can buy. I would look at he room and amplifiers before replacing the speakers. Remember that you get very much loudspeakers for the money when going for the panels. Box-speakers with the same quality, if they every can be compared to stas, are several times more expensive. Stats = big bang for bucks.

twich54 said:

Silver, first off, your speaker set up is wrong…… with room that's 14' wide you do not want your speakers placed 12' apart for starters. FWIW, my room dimensions are very close to yours (14'6" x 24'), my Spire's (predecessor to the Montis) are 7' apart and 42' off the wall behind them. Yes I'd like another foot behind them but room constraints at the opposite end preclude that.

Click to expand...

Dave/Gordon, doesn't that positioning typically give you the hole-in-the-middle effect?

Bernard said:

Dave/Gordon, doesn't that positioning typically give you the hole-in-the-middle effect?

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exactly Bernard, besides I noticed in another thread he gives totally different dimensions as to his speaker set up, so I have no clue (not sure he does either) as to his set up. The fact that he started the thread, hasn't responded to these concerns ………oh well !

I'm setting my Ethos up as follows:

6' apart ( 40" from left wall, 50" from right wall, 30-36" from front wall very slight toe in )
Listening area (couch) 8' back from speakers
Rear wall 17' behind couch
10' ceilings.
Irregular walls behind the listening area include bay windows that enlarge the space and a kitchen bar extends into the space a bit. I installed heavy sound deadening material throughout the inside of the kitchen bar to muffle the already quiet dishwasher.

I'm fortunate that my room is cooperating with me. I have to 2 glass doors out to my deck on the left side, but one is directly to the side of the left speaker and the second is just behind my listening area.

Am I on the right path ? Suggestions ?

I'm driving it with an OPPO BDP-105D with balanced outputs going to a class A/B 500W amplifier, with large OFC symmetrical wound speaker cable without end connectors. Instead shortly after stripping the wire back I'm applying NyoGel 760G electric grease to prevent oxidation.

The end result is only 1 set of balanced cables and minimal interference from end connectors.

BTW I got this idea from my Banshee which has the Motor wired straight to the ESC without connectors and just this same grease to avoid solder joints and points of failure.

RCHeliGuy said:

Am I on the right path ? Suggestions ?

Click to expand...

How does it sound?

GG

twich54 said:

Silver, first off, your speaker set up is wrong…… with room that's 14' wide you do not want your speakers placed 12' apart for starters. FWIW, my room dimensions are very close to yours (14'6" x 24'), my Spire's (predecessor to the Montis) are 7' apart and 42' off the wall behind them. Yes I'd like another foot behind them but room constraints at the opposite end preclude that.

Click to expand...

Dave. Pretty sure he has speakers on the long wall (23'). He mentioned that his listening position is very close to back wall and he is about 12' away w Logan's about 2' from front wall. So the math kind of adds up. He has decreased volume of woofer to compensate for his position. He prob has about 5' to each side wall given the 12' separation and 23' width. That's all I got....

silver305 said:

I have my Montis about 3 feet away from the back wall and my room is about 14ftx9x23 in width. i am about 12 feet away from the speakers and they are about 12 feet apart

Click to expand...

timm said:

Dave. Pretty sure he has speakers on the long wall (23'). He mentioned that his listening position is very close to back wall and he is about 12' away w Logan's about 2' from front wall. So the math kind of adds up.

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actually Timm his math doesn't add up, that's my point ……… 3' + 12' = 15' ………perhaps he's sitting inside the wall ? Regardless, as I said, in another post he gives different dimensions so who knows ??????

Haha. I know. That's why I said 'kind of adds up'. . And he initially said 30" from the wall. Given all that - the room could be 14'8". So rounding gets him there. Work with me here!!

Gordon Gray said:

How does it sound?

GG

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What I listed is where I plan to start as soon as everything arrives. They didn't have a pair of Ethos in stock the color my wife approved for the den. I'm not sure exactly how long it will be before they arrive.

Fortunately I have a friend who has been critically listening for many years and he is going to help me dial in the sound stage ( read, he will be sitting on the couch while I move the speakers around). I'll get it as good as I can on my own first and then see what kind of fine tuning we can do.

He told me that a friend of his in Florida just got a very nice Martin Logan setup and he felt listening to the speakers was addictive.

FYI, I listened to my first Martin Logan speakers in 1986 at KEF's while attending the University of Kansas. They were a pair of Monoliths. A year later I visited the ML factory and heard the Statements. Then periodically over the years since then I've listened to a pair here and there, but either I didn't have the cash handy or it wasn't a priority in my life. In fact I had put this on the back burner for so long I forgot about it. Then a friend of mine was researching turntables and he got me thinking about audio again and I'm now really looking forward to this.

I really should curb my enthusiasm, wait until I have my speakers set up and not hijack someone else's thread.

Sorry.

Dynaudio recently sold out to the Chinese. So has Vifa, Scan-Speak and Elac (through a shelf company). The only surviving major speaker manufacturing company left in Europe is Dali.

Dynaudio's C1 and C2 range are stupendous speakers. I don't know if it's fair to compare the C1 with the Montis - maybe the Summit might be a more appropriate competitor...