Soundlab Ultimates

Soundlab Ultimates are the ones with a special metal chassis. Didn't really fancy them tbh. While they could have done with more open space (and were running off a Bel Canto system, the new dac and the amps which are 500w each), the thing that could have benefited with more space is more soundstage. They do certain things which are fake - the mouth of the singer is too large, the trumpet and guitar seems too large as well. They have a very typical Stat sound, I prefer the Logan panel more. Quads as well. Where these do better than Logans and quads is that the panel can be more dynamic, it extends low without a crossover, though frankly if those who own hybrids don't mind the crossover, it's not a problem. Even though they have good bass, drums sound unnatural. I personally would stick with a Logan hybrid over this, and definitely the Analysis.

How silly. A massive speaker in a small room.

They certainly look great - like an oversized CLS.

Where'd you hear this? Was this a friend's place?

I'm sure it's a good speaker, just not the optimal room for that size speaker.

I have placed panels in a small room. The amplifier is small integrated.

To my ears the sound is very good.

Have Fun!

Joey_V said:

Where'd you hear this? Was this a friend's place?

I'm sure it's a good speaker, just not the optimal room for that size speaker.

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A better room would have given it better soundstage and tonality. But thing remains that it produces some things in an oversized fashion. It's not as bad as you guys think. The rear wave is not being effective here. The width is fine, though it can be placed wider. There is no bass boom. The distance of the listener is fine, I was more than 12 ft away easy.

Also what you cannot see is there is a lot of space at the sides, though not behind it. Between me and the speaker, the room is very wide, so no first reflection points

This is the only guy I know who has owned both Soundlabs and Analysis. Read his post 7 in the link. Post 6 is also relevant that he no longer needs subs with the Analysis.

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?action=profile;u=20;sa=showPosts

Bonzo, when you say things like "the mouth of the singer is too large", "trumpet and guitar seem too large", I think it's a matter of perspective. If the speakers were in a larger room and you were sitting further away from them, that perspective would be different. The designer has to make choices about the speakers' presentation capabilities. If you were to sit four or five feet from someone playing a saxophone, it would be very loud and appear to be "too large". At a distance of twenty feet, it will sound better. So IMO, it is an incorrect assumption to say they "do certain things which are fake", as they were probably designed to exploit the benefits of playing in a larger room. Also, what do you mean by, "they have a very typical Stat sound"? Do you mean that electrostatic speakers have their own coloration, presentation or other anomaly? I have my understanding of "Stat sound", but I'm not sure what you mean. Thanks.

slowGEEZR said:

Bonzo, when you say things like "the mouth of the singer is too large", "trumpet and guitar seem too large", I think it's a matter of perspective. If the speakers were in a larger room and you were sitting further away from them, that perspective would be different. The designer has to make choices about the speakers' presentation capabilities. If you were to sit four or five feet from someone playing a saxophone, it would be very loud and appear to be "too large". At a distance of twenty feet, it will sound better. So IMO, it is an incorrect assumption to say they "do certain things which are fake", as they were probably designed to exploit the benefits of playing in a larger room. Also, what do you mean by, "they have a very typical Stat sound"? Do you mean that electrostatic speakers have their own coloration, presentation or other anomaly? I have my understanding of "Stat sound", but I'm not sure what you mean. Thanks.

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I thought of that. I have been close to other speakers and further away from other speakers, but felt the size of this was weird. Also, I have had a previous experience with an old A1 where I gave the speaker the benefit of the doubt as that room was quite small, but here well over 12 feet was a sufficient distance and the feeling was that the stuff was not real. I have not had it with Quads, Logans, or Audio Exklusiv - or with non stat planars like Apogees, Analysis, or Maggies, or with other big speakers

Regarding Stat sound, I can hear a difference between a Stat panel and a Ribbon/Magnet panel. Not sure how to describe it, but those who have experienced both probably know what I mean. I find Stats thinner (not a negative), more coherent than ribbons. While all stats do female vocals very well, I find something lacking on male vocals as compared to the Analysis (which is more full bodied than stats). Stats also tend to show sparkle of brightness on certain recordings I audition, which ribbons don't. Depending on the electronics the brightness may be a bit more or a bit less, but it is there. I also prefer piano on ribbons as compared to Stats.

Interesting. I'll have to find a pair to listen to. In my experience, anytime I listen to live amplified music, the size of the singer's voice is something that never enters into the appreciation of the performance, as it is amplified much louder than is humanly possible without the amplification and the whole performance is larger than life, so to speak. I don't recall from your post, but I assume this speaker's larger than life characteristic occurs at all volumes? I am now listening to Eric Clapton's latest album and notice that his voice sounds life size to me on my system. I suppose radiating surface area of the drivers or panels may have something to do with it.

Also, interesting comments regarding sound characteristics of ribbons vs. stats. I used to listen to Apogee Stages and found their sound from the treble on up to sound unrealistically higher in frequency (tilted up sound) and thinner sounding than reality to me, though there was plenty of detail. Also, the bass was not deep, but it was a relatively small speaker so that was expected. Apogee even made a separate sub and stand to help with the bass. Of course, the whole system chain and environment play a huge role in all this!

The comparatively thin sound of the Logans, I have always maintained because I think it is obvious, is because the bass drivers are at the bottom of the hybrids and the ESL panel doing higher frequencies is at the top.

The CLX does NOT display this thinness (obvious as soon as you hear it), because it does not suffer from this affliction. The Neolith DOES suffer from this affliction, for the same reason.

Analysis Omegas and Apogee Duettas have, like the CLX, bass panels that extend to the height of the mid range/treble emitters. Superior designs in my opinion on this one aspect. The little Stage isn't big enough to really work that well with planar magnetic technology IMHO, but it was a good attempt to make the speakers affordable within limitations.

WRT brightness in some recordings, you'll hear that with the Interstellas where you would not with my old pair. I think the AAs are just plain rolled off - really quite a lot. The HFN test showed the FR to be all over the place for AAs, but TBH I don't think they knew how to measure a planar's FR properly, having the mic way to close to the speaker? Wild accusation I know. Plus you could tell the reviewer just didn't like them.

Male vocals like Cohen can sound larger than life but even on my old Ascents he sounded pretty huge TBH. He defo sounds deeper/fuller via Duettas.

That reviewer ran it with Devialet when he was specifically asked not to. Lol. The best thing about the AAs that I liked were they they were the most detailed, and were doing brilliantly at high frequencies without getting bright. even initially I though they were rolled off, and other AA people I have been chatting with feel the same way.

Justin I did not find anything LARGE like I did with SLs on either the Logans, the AAs, or the Apogees. Speakers have differences but I found this unnatural and nothing special. If I wanted a normal full range stat sound I would pay 3k for an used Audio Exklusiv and that would be fine.

So I am back to deciding between AA and Anima as dream stereo speakers, and then working on the Mch strategy with other speakers. This auditioning hobby is good, it is saving me money by getting rid of expensive dream speakers. If everything goes according to plan, Santa will bring a frenzy of auditioning starting next week to month end

bonzo said:

I thought of that. I have been close to other speakers and further away from other speakers, but felt the size of this was weird. Also, I have had a previous experience with an old A1 where I gave the speaker the benefit of the doubt as that room was quite small, but here well over 12 feet was a sufficient distance and the feeling was that the stuff was not real. I have not had it with Quads, Logans, or Audio Exklusiv - or with non stat planars like Apogees, Analysis, or Maggies, or with other big speakers

Regarding Stat sound, I can hear a difference between a Stat panel and a Ribbon/Magnet panel. Not sure how to describe it, but those who have experienced both probably know what I mean. I find Stats thinner (not a negative), more coherent than ribbons. While all stats do female vocals very well, I find something lacking on male vocals as compared to the Analysis (which is more full bodied than stats). Stats also tend to show sparkle of brightness on certain recordings I audition, which ribbons don't. Depending on the electronics the brightness may be a bit more or a bit less, but it is there. I also prefer piano on ribbons as compared to Stats.

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Bonzo -- I would refer to this as more 'organic' sounding.... and I know what you say about these differences..... would you agree with this statement...

timm said:

Bonzo -- I would refer to this as more 'organic' sounding.... and I know what you say about these differences..... would you agree with this statement...

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I would, but organic here puts the non-organic in a negative light. The thin and relatively non-organic parts of Stats are not necessarily negatives, just differences, and some might prefer one to the other.

"The Omegas had needed about 100 hours of playing time to reach 90 percent of their full sonic capability, and perhaps another 50 hours for complete break-in. The Amphitryons were a different story. Through about the first 250 hours, I sometimes found myself wondering if the bass panels might be defective; there seemed to be less, not more bass weight than I had heard from the Omegas. But finally, after what I estimate was about 400+ hours, the big guys opened up, and I knew I had made the right call. Now my room morphed instantly into a well-fleshed-out semblance of the opera house, concert hall, chamber venue, rock arena or intimate club captured on the recordings. Fine as the Omegas had been, in this listening room the Amphitryons created even more multidimensional magic. Here at last is the greatest two-channel music-listening experience I have ever had. And not just spatially — this is also the most tonally dead-accurate musical reproduction I have ever experienced.

Don't think that large-scale music and big performing spaces are the whole story. Smaller-scaled, more intimate music is rendered flawlessly as well. I was surprised time and again by how the Amphitryons captured the subtlety of small, quiet performance, whether vocal or instrumental. I recall thinking once that these speakers should be called something like "Mimeticas" — playing on the Greek term mimesis: representation of reality.

So, the perfect speaker? After years of reviewer conditioning, I know to say "No — no equipment is perfect." But there is a part of me that wants to scream "hell yes!" Of course they are not literally perfect, but they come closer to it than any speakers this guy has ever encountered — even those six-figure audio fantasies that populate our hobby these days. So, to paraphrase something I said a few months ago, I'm keeping the Amphitryons, and I expect to be listening to them for years to come. The loudspeaker that can make me change my mind has not, I think, been invented yet."

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superio...amphitryon.htm

I understand prevoious link from Audionervosa wasn't working.

trying again

Does this work http://www.audionervosa.com/index.ph...45393#msg45393

Also this http://www.audionervosa.com/index.ph...45396#msg45396

Whilst that SL guy's front of the speaker space was wide, they are firing at a really awkward angle into what amounts to an echo chamber. It ain't gonna work and IT WILL cause audible anomalies.

No matter you've ruled them out. Neither of those links work.

Re the Amphy quote - simple fact is there aren't many speakers that can beat a good pair of planar magnetic speakers at any price. That's a quote I got from Jon - he was talking about the new Duettas. But then he would say that

Was thinking it'd be cool to get Peter round with some NAT amps when you come round to listen. Wonder if he is up for it?

http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?action=printpage;topic=3532.0

The guy owned both

"I've heard the Analysis a few times with tubes (Joule and VTL) and SS (Soulution, Spectron) they respond well to the extra current from SS. Do you like them better than the SoundLabs? Thanks"

"Hi, yes, I like them better. They are much more dynamic, never breakup or loose control at higher levels, have better bass and to my ears sound even more transparent and have no coloration. They are even better with the xover mods. My friend with the Art amps bought a brand new ASR - his friend came over for a listen while on a business trip and he bought a new ASR too "

"I still have my 2 JL112 but hardly use them since the xover change. The last few nights when I go to turn off the system and I get to the subs I find they were never turned on"

Justin Peter has told me to contact him only when I want to buy something - to be fair I have learned from him the most yet not bought anything

Re Pete LOL hopefully you will get something from him I don't think AA will sell direct with Peter being the IK dealer these days.