MCACC Speaker Phase error setup question

Hey guys. I just purchased a preowned pair of Odysseys to replace the Vistas I was using for the front channels in my 5.1 setup. The Vistas have now moved to the back.

When I was running the MCACC on my Pioneer SC-63 it is flagging an error stating that the front left and right speakers are out of phase. The wiring has not changed since I had my Vistas hooked up. I reconfirmed that the phase was correct. Yet I still get the same error.

Could the Odysseys be wired out of phase internally?

Could the stat panels themselves be wired out of phase? The prior owner says the panels have never been removed and the serial numbers on the panel match the speaker base.

Once I reverse the speaker leads the error goes away.

Any ideas on how to trouble shoot this?

Thanks in advance!

Hola. Because your big Odessey are dipolar speakers, the mic and the program for adjustments thinks it is an error, and it is not. Just trust your ears and do this adjustments by listening, playing the pink noise buit in, for speaker level adjustment. Happy listening!

Thanks for the reply!

But if it was due to the nature of electrostats wouldn't the Vistas have caused the same error in calibration?

Not necessarily. Because the dispersion stat panel patter of the Odyssey is different, a reason why you have that. But you do not have to believe me. Happy listening!

I really appreciate the input and I believe you but was wondering if there was a workaround since I would still like to use the MCACC for my surround setup and room compensation.

Motegi. The tools provided by the receiver, use an average sound. Your ears are better, but you need to have them trained. I do trust mines, and I do like what I listen. My ears are the final judges of what I had done. Trust in them, not in a cheapie mic with your receiver,(with due respect) where usually makes more harm than good. Do not cut your Odysseys, use full range option, but do cut your center channel at 80Hz. If you are using a sub, 80Hz is good for movies, but for stereo music, no. You might have them with too much bass energy. Again, trust in your judges!!!

SL3 and Ascenti are out-of-phase with each other top-to-bottom, so it seems possible that Vista and Odyssey also could be out-of-phase to each other.

Hola Tosh. Thanks to chime in. One of the members in this forum with knowledge is Tosh. And I agree with him regarding the phase. Remember that ML has a dipole sound with the stat panels. Their behavior usually is not into the software of the program. Just, enjoy your new Odisseys.

Thanks for the kind words, roberto. But it sounds like ML just dropped the ball on getting the absolute phase correct for all their speaker models, and I don't see anything wrong with connecting any speaker pair so that they are in correct absolute phase.

Yes...but I think the mic is getting the back wave reflection which is 180º to the front. And here is where the problem arise. The computer gets confused. On the other channel, the back wave is not producing any problem. The color cables at the stat panel, is too easy to follow. I do not think they could be connected wrong. Blue is front, Red is center and black is rear.

roberto said:

Yes...but I think the mic is getting the back wave reflection which is 180º to the front. And here is where the problem arise. The computer gets confused. On the other channel, the back wave is not producing any problem.

Click to expand...

OP states in this thread "that the front left and right speakers are out of phase" so both channels have the same problem....?

Tosh said:

OP states in this thread "that the front left and right speakers are out of phase" so both channels have the same problem....?

Click to expand...

Yes. So when you run the MCACC initial setup, it goes through all of the channels quickly as an initial test and to determine how many speakers are hooked up. The center channel Motif and rear Vistas register fine. The newly purchased Odysseys that I have as my front L and R come up as ERROR out of phase. Both of them.

If I instead wire each Odyssey with the red and black reversed then the MCACC test passes just fine with no errors.

That is why I was concerned.

Again, I have not changed any of my wiring from when my Vistas were being used as the front L and R. The MCACC worked fine with the Vistas as the front channel speakers and my Infinitys in the rear. And I have reconfirmed all of my wiring to be correct throughout.

I was just thinking that someone else must have used a Pioneer Elite MCACC setup with their MLs before in a surround setup besides me.

One would assume that if the error was due to the bipolar nature of the stat panel of the Odyssey the Vistas would have a similar issue. Although the dispersion pattern change due to the stat panel size/shape difference between the two models does make some sense as well.

But why would reversing the RED/BLACK connections on the Odysseys make the error go away?

Perhaps I need to break out one of my old Stereophile Test CDs and run the "in phase" and "out of phase" test tracks...

motegi said:

But why would reversing the RED/BLACK connections on the Odysseys make the error go away?

Click to expand...

Because, as you have discovered, the Odyssey has absolute phase opposite to the Vista. Just leave it connected 'in reverse' -- or reverse all the other speakers! But yes, it does seem a bit of an ML goof, and it should have been reported somewhere on the forum that Odyssey is backward...

No need for test tracks, as the L and R Odyssey are still in phase with each other, which is the most important part.