Datasat Dirac with Auro 3d

MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum

Help Support MartinLogan Audio Owners Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

bonzo

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
1,370
Reaction score
0
Location
London
Again heard a Datasat Dirac I had heard previously, but this time with Auro 3d upgrade. It is 13.4 B&W speaker system. The front 2 were 802Ds. The Auro 3d let's you put a speaker on top of the ceiling and gives you that overhead ambience. There were 3 ceiling speakers as well.

This system was superb, played only complex music through it, chorals and duets from Bach cantatas and full symphony orchestra, it handled all superbly in a 7m * 3m room with some bass traps. Music was so relaxing and concert hall ambience due to the Auro 3D. Think 2-channel with concert hall ambience rather than being cheap surround.

This was probably better than any 2-channel system I have heard. The brass from Scheherezade was produced better than I have ever heard before, more 3D. Superb bass. Real bass. Sure, there were some holes. The piano again went through the B&W crossovers back and forth, and got a bit digital, but was still great. Some timbral loss possibly on violins yet overall effect much better. Sometimes you do get an artificial feel, but like the guy said you can put a dac between the datasat and the 2channel to improve that sound, and some cheap dacs for the ambient speakers.

Kind of scary. If I can confirm first impressions by listening to this again, then that means change of strategy and having to go for active box speakers to reduce costs and spending on Datasat Dirac Auro 3d instead.
 
Which Datasat, Kedar? RS20i?

Trinnov Altitude will be better, though... Auro + Atmos + remapping to ensure objects are right where they're supposed to be. Better room correction, too.
 
Yes rs20i. He might get the altitude. He likes the remapping from trinnov but prefers RC of the DD. He said if won the lottery he would have both
 
That's odd... Not four days ago Nick said he'd use the processing in the Datasat and DRC and remapping of the Trinnov. When asked what the Datasat processing added to such a setup, he was unresponsive.

In any case, I strongly suspect Auro's doomed to become a niche within a niche, and fair comparisons of Auro and Atmos upmixing in the same system simply aren't possible until late this year, earliest. Looks like Trinnov should have both codecs first, followed closely by Denon/Marantz, then Datasat sometime early next year.
 
He might have been demoing it. Anyway heard a DD Auro with Triad speakers today and it was disappointing, though it did do Orchestral 3d well. Too electronic, uninvolving. So clearly set up matters a lot. Listening to a set up with Wisdom tomorrow. I am off this week, should have been doing something fruitful :). They are launching the Trinnov altitude in mid-November, will ehar it then but they have paradigm speakers.
 
Got this from a guy on WBF: I totally agree with you. I heard Auro at CEDIA and was blown away. I have just completed some blind tests comparing the Datasat running Dirac to an Integra 80.2 for music and surround AND, against a system with the $70,000 dCS stack, Magcio speakers, etc.

The Datasat is an incredible piece. Dirac is what makes it superior to other offerings. We did not have Auro on this Datasat.

If you care to read about my blind comparisons, go to http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...ons-ssp-s.html

If after that, you still have questions, get back to me and I will try to answer them.
 
Dirac is what makes it superior to other offerings.
Superior to some other offerings, certainly, but Chuck's never auditioned Trinnov in his system. Nor Room Perfect, nor ARCOS. We had a lengthy telecon when he first described his test, as you can see from our post exchange early in the linked thread.

What should scare the hell out of folks is the fact that, with room correction off, the $20K pre/pro sounded no different than the Integra.:devil:
 
From Chuck's post, I relate to this, because I heard that demo disc and I have heard the church organ live in St. Paul's Cathedral. 2-channel cannot recreate this, it was purely a Mch Auro effect. Or Atmos, but needs that over 2-channel.

"This year at CEDIA, Auro demonstrated their system and one of the pieces they demonstrated was a huge pipe organ in a huge church (a video went along with the music). That was the only time in the 40 plus years I have been in this addiction, that I KNEW I was in that church – it was that real. The Datasat supports Auro so couple that with all of the other benefits, and this product, for those than can afford it, it an awesome piece of technology. If I were a top 1% guy, I would order one today!!! "
 
Though the Wisdom Audio was meh. Last two systems had more digititis, electronic sound. While Orchestras still sounded superior due to the ambience, 3d effect, and separation, timbre and bloom of instruments is not as good. Same with vocals. Vocals sound great because you get that distance from the stage, yet a 3d effect, but the underlying color of the vocals is dry. This is too costly a proposition to go all in, given that a mistake means well over 40k wasted, and tough to change a component out like in 2-channel. The first B&W system was easily the best
 
Ken, Jon fo, can a Logan hybrid or a full range panel work in an Auro 3d system with small box speakers for the ambient sound? Or will the rear wave and mismatch between the two designs cause problems.
 
Ken, Jon fo, can a Logan hybrid or a full range panel work in an Auro 3d system with small box speakers for the ambient sound? Or will the rear wave and mismatch between the two designs cause problems.
Yeah, I saw your AVS post and the reply. I've only used ML (and now EP) dipoles in my 2ch system, Kedar. Both of my multi-ch systems use all conical drivers. IIRC, Jonathan's MC is all ESL, except for the bass (though he's probably gonna have to use cones when he implements ATMOS ceilings).
 
You mean he will have to use cones in the ceilings. Will they work with the ESLs?

What advantages have you found in a high end 2-ch over a quality Mch?

Lynn Olson at Positive Feedback today says the Best Sound at the recent RMAF in Denver was the exaSound e28 playing 5.1 Multichannel DSD.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue75/rmaf_2014.htm
 
You mean he will have to use cones in the ceilings. Will they work with the ESLs?
Unless he plans to hang 4-6 ESL's from his ceiling, they'll have to do.

What advantages have you found in a high end 2-ch over a quality Mch?
For music? It's simply my preference, not a universal rule. If you prefer artificial ambience via PLII or Auro or whatever upmixer in a multi-channel system, go for it. Lots of folks do.
 
So you think if I go ahead with a panel 2-ch and then add ambient box speakers at a later stage I will be fine?
 
No Kedar, I'm saying I can't provide you with a useful opinion, as requested back in post #10. I'm also suggesting that Auro VOG or Atmos 4x or 6x ceilings almost must be cones.

There must be other forum members using EM ESL + EM boxes in a MC system who can comment on this kind of mixed approach.
 
There must be other forum members using EM ESL + EM boxes in a MC system who can comment on this kind of mixed approach.

My system is EM ESL's for fronts, Motif center, Source surrounds, and LX16 for rear surrounds. With movies in 7.1 they usually just use the rear surrounds as ambient "noise" a lot and I can't tell where the Source ends and the LX16's begin unless they place a sound (like a gunshot) directly behind the MLP then I know it's the LX16's. When I first got them I put on some music, put the receiver in All Channel Stereo, turned off my 5 channel amp so it was just the LX16's and my subs. They weren't set up correctly for stereo listening but they sounded really good, I'd say for as tiny as they are compared to the EM ESL's and Source they can hold their own. They aren't quite as "magical" sounding as the ESL's but they're darn close. I have not tried the Dolby PLIIx or z (my receiver has both but I don't use heights in my setup so no point in trying z) with 2 channel music yet, I've been meaning to try it but I'm not big on matrixing surround, I much prefer discrete. The user SubSolar on here (and AVSforum) has ESL fronts and some of ML in-ceilings with the folder motion tweeters in an Atmos setup, bonzo maybe PM him here or over on AVSforum about his impressions of them integrating with his ESL fronts in that style of configuration.
 
Last edited:
Ken, Jon fo, can a Logan hybrid or a full range panel work in an Auro 3d system with small box speakers for the ambient sound? Or will the rear wave and mismatch between the two designs cause problems.

Hi Bonzo, I had posted a lengthy discussion on this topic a while ago: http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?15713-Dolby-Atmos-Speaker-selection-and-setup

To summarize, I believe the in-ceiling ML's with cone woofer and folded motion tweeter would be a great way to solve this if sticking with the ML as your speaker brand.

As for using an ESL, well most designs are too big, and the dipole nature would not work well here. So as much as I'd love to do an ESL ceiling (and I have a brand new SL3 panel and electronics I could use) I gave up on the idea a while ago.

My current front runer for ceiling speakers is the KEF Ci200QR as I beleive coaxials are the optimum configuration for a speaker that will only be a few feet away from the listners as they have a fully integrated point source behaviour. Four of those in custom ceiling-mount cabinets is my current plan. But the EM in-ceilings are also under consideration.

As a data point, the Golden Ear room (they also used pleated AMT tweeters) at the recent New York show was widely praised for the cohesive 3D soundfield they had during their Atmos demos, and their in-ceilings are just like the ML models.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top