Summit sound?

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khenegar

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I have a pair of summits and I have not been able to get much body in sound from them. My system consists of a lexicon mc12 processor running it in 2ch bypass for music. I'm using bryston amps and a Oppo bdp83 player and Vpi Classic table. If this has been discussed before please direct me there. Room is 12x22x8. Carpeted floor curtains on the windows and etc sound treatments.
 
I have a pair of summits and I have not been able to get much body in sound from them. My system consists of a lexicon mc12 processor running it in 2ch bypass for music. I'm using bryston amps and a Oppo bdp83 player and Vpi Classic table. If this has been discussed before please direct me there. Room is 12x22x8. Carpeted floor curtains on the windows and etc sound treatments.

Just my opinion - but the ML are very sensitive to amps and equipment in general. Most issues are related to equipment earlier in the value chain. Hence, I think this is the reason many prefer "warm" amps or tubes for ML. IMHO Bryston is a bit cold and analytical, although I am sure there are differences between the models. The room may also be a bit on the bright side - so you cold for one try to turn the speakers more in your listening position and use soft material on the side walls.
 
you need to tell us more about your setup ......... speaker placement, room treatments, etc

Also, FWIW and IMO the BDP-83 has been sonically eclipsed by the 95 and 103 (I have a 83 and consider it just adequate)
 
You don't need Pass Labs Class A monos to attain good sound.

The Summits, properly set up with "reasonably good" components, are very musical with plenty of transparency and body.

You should look elsewhere for the "reason(s)" for the problem.

GG
 
Are you the original owner? My Summits were purchased "lightly used" and after 2 years of suspecting something was "wrong" I measured them individually (using XTZ Room Analyzer) and discovered that one of the down-firing subs was connected backwards (out of phase) to the amp board! ML's superb tech support (Jim Powers at that time) helped me diagnose and fix the problem, even though I had purchased used. See thread and XTZ graphs here... http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?9648

I suggest measuring (and comparing) each speakers response individually, using either XTZ, REW, or Omnimic. Not sure if any of the downloadable smartphone acoustic apps are sufficiently accurate to identify a malfunctioning panel or woofer. Perhaps somebody here can recommend one.
 
I suggest measuring (and comparing) each speakers response individually, using either XTZ, REW, or Omnimic. Not sure if any of the downloadable smartphone acoustic apps are sufficiently accurate to identify a malfunctioning panel or woofer. Perhaps somebody here can recommend one.
Spot on, Alan. A set of FR graphs would be very helpful as folks work to diagnose the problem.

khenegar, I have a spare XTZ I could loan you if you like. All you'd need is a laptop to run the software. If you're interested, just shoot me a PM.
 
I was very happy with an AR Ref 110, AR Ref 3. Had to wait till the power amp did 200 hours though, till then it was boring. You need to get the right source in. Some sources made it sound linear and uninvolving. For ultimate body put Shun Mook diamond resonators under Oppe and pre (get them on a 30 day trial from cable company, you won't send them back). I sent mine to a friend who is a reviewer, he doesn't work, sits at home all day reviewing stuff. He has a problem with eyesight and his hearing is super tuned. Said he hadn't heard any tweak like that before, the body was amazing.

Of course I am assuming you have over 3 feet behind your panels, which I did. Is 22 front to back wall, then that's plenty. 12 sounds a bit less.

Your mch processor might be a problem as well. IMO you need valves somewhere in the chain with a Logan. Passlabs is good obviously, and while monos are good, you don't need to spend that much yet. I haven't tried a Bryston but if it is anything like a Krell body shouldn't be a problem.

Also possible your room treatments are too many. I had none except behind my seat.

Please note when I had a Krell s300i, I did not enjoy my system and it sounded flat.
 
It's either something's amiss in your set up or your perception of lack of "body" to the sound is comparing ESL sound to that of boxed cones. I have a magico q3 and an amati futura. Both these cutting edge box speakers, upon initial listening, may seem to have more "meat" of "fullness" to recreated images but after long term listening to the summits and switching back to the either of the cone driven speakers, it takes me time to get used to listening to "cones in boxes." The Magico with its super inert cabinet probably closes the gap but neither, nor any other box speaker I've heard, regardless of price, touches the esl panels for midrange purity and realism.

Which Bryston amp are you using? Some of the much older models sound thin and edgy but the latest models are warm and full, specially the mighty 20sst monoblocs.
 
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khenegar, check your processor's 2 channel 'bypass' settings. Perhaps the processor is not actually delivering an unadulerated signal to your power amp and the Summits are merely reproducing the signal they are given.

While you're at it, check the Oppo as you seem to be using this device as your source. These universal players can be tricky when setting up. Perhaps the Oppo is out-putting a processed signal even though you may have selected the 'stereo' or 2 channel option. Many universal players still process the signal before reaching the pre amp - the Oppo may not be set to 'direct'. Actually, I don't know whether you can select a 'direct' 2 channel output. I know the Oppo's cousin, the Cambridge Audio player has 2 channel setup issues.

Good luck.
 
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khenegar, check your processor's 2 channel 'bypass' settings. Perhaps the processor is not actually delivering an unadulerated signal to your power amp and the Summits are merely reproducing the signal they are given.

While you're at it, check the Oppo as you seem to be using this device as your source. These universal players can be tricky when setting up. Perhaps the Oppo is out-putting a processed signal even though you may have selected the 'stereo' or 2 channel option. Many universal players still process the signal before reaching the pre amp - the Oppo may not be set to 'direct'. Actually, I don't know whether you can select a 'direct' 2 channel output. I know the Oppo's cousin, the Cambridge Audio player has 2 channel setup issues.

Good luck.
The lexicon mc12 2ch bypass eliminates all processing u can not make any adjustments for sound. I only use 2ch bypass when I am listening to records. Any other listening is with the Oppo. In listening to sacd I have a separate input setup with analogue 5 ch input from the Oppo no processing.
 
Check your cables. Something's not right. I would never describe the Summits as lacking body.
 
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Yes, definitely check your cables. I have Montis speakers which didn't seem to have a solid center image and lacked bass. My Denon AVR 4520 said that they were out of phase. This happens sometimes with dipole speakers so I ignored the "warning". However, after doing everything possible I decided to switch the cables and to my surprise warning of "out of phase" disappeared and center image is now excellent and bass is definitely better. It was quite a surprise. So before doing anything drastic test your cables first.
 

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