What current model compares to ascent?

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shoafb

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I have had Martin Logan's for 20 years or so, starting with aerius and now ascents I purchased new in 2001, so... I'm sticking with them but as these are getting up there in age I face the dilemma of replacing panels sooner or later, or upgrading to a new model. I am going to listen to some Montis tomorrow, but 10k is a bit on the high side for me, and I'm not sure my budget of 5-6k is going to cut it with a lower model?
I play a lot of rock and wonder whether the smaller bass cabs are going to be able to perform at the level the larger ascents do? I've bottomed the woofer on the ascents before, and that was not pleasant at all!
System consist of:
Audio research refII
Levinson 332
Oppo BDP 105
Velodyne dd12 (for movies)
Cabled with Nordost tyre balanced if and transparent ultra mm2 speaker

My alternate plan is to just re panel them and start looking for used AR ref 3, my dealer is kind enough to look out for used equipment for me. That's how the pre amp and amp were both purchased.
 
wait to get a used Summit, Ethos or Montis with that 5 - 6k budget. Rest of your system is pretty good, I have the ARC Ref 3. But since you already have a Ref II, spend the money on a speaker rather than get Ref 3.

I don't know anything about older models though.

If you like MLs for rock already, the Ethos and Montis will do it better, better bass integration.
 
first off if you're playing a lot of bass heavy music why did you list your sub …… (for movies) ? The days of thinking subs are only for movies are long gone. Given the fact that you have a DD series Velodyne (I have it's bigger brother, 15") it's well suited to be integrated for music.

In so far as other speakers, I agree with gonzo, buy a pair of used Montis, add another DD-12 and you'll have bottom end the likes of which you NEVER had before !
 
Thanks for the replies guys!
Twitch, I use it off and on again for music depending on the mood. I have the crossover set as low as it will go and volume is only on 9 or 10 usually. The ascents go pretty low and it can get overpowering. But still... Very tight bass. I sometimes have to walk over to tell if the sub is on or off since the logo led indicator is hard to see.
On blu ray movies if its cranked too loud, which is wall shaking 11:30 - 12:00 on the pre I have clipped a woofer in the ascent before. Or at least I "think" that's what it was... Very loud crack/pop on the bass note. No damage done though. It sounded top notch right up to that point though LOL.. Chest shacking bass. The only solution is to roll the Logan's off 3 db with the switch on the back but they thin out too much and I could never get the sub blended well enough in to those frequencies to make up for it. Maybe if there where 2 it would make a difference, but I'm out of room on the front wall really, and the money to do it.
Have you ever compared your ls27 to a ref3 ? That was another suggestion of my dealer as he thought it one upped the
ref3.
I'm budgeting for this time next year so, I will likely have him keep an eye out for a pair of used as Bonzo suggest.
 
Interesting that you could not 'blend' in your sub because IMO that's one of the easiest things to do with the DD series. With that being said I'd bet your room acoustics are the culprit and or placement of the sub itself.

with respect to the woofer distortion that could be a product of your Levinson amp running out of gas.

LS27 vs Ref3 ……………. yes I've A/B'd both (Overture Audio, Wilmington, De), the LS27 is a far better value IMO. The difference in $$, again IMO can be better spent in other areas.

With respect to your dealer looking for used gear why not search yourself on the 'Gon' ?
 
Yes, placement is a bit limited. Right now I have it to the inside of the left speaker, I have tried to to the right but that's in a corner and it sounded tighter and more coherent were it is now. There are a gazillion settings as you know, I pretty much let it "auto set" using the set up mic then set the volume.
Not sure if it was the levinson losing steam or not, there is clipping protection built. It sounded like the woofer bottoming out...it was nasty! You'll never jump quicker then that to turn it down I tell ya.
The reason for going local is I figured I have a year, the dealer is a ML dealer and I've Ben going to them for 20 years now. Trying to help keep the BM guys here, they are very accommodating and have awesome gear to listen to. They found the Ref 2 for me and Levinson as well. Recapped the levinson, and upgraded a couple things on the voltage gain boards.
 
The ls27 is considered by some to be brighter, while ref 3 is considered to be richer. I know people who are unhappy with the ls27 because their system got bright. So you need to see how out works on yours. With ref 3 you won't have that issue, also ref 3 holds its value in the used market
 
TBH the Ascent is very good. I preferred my Ascents driven by some big 211 valve based monos to the Summit driven by a Krell.

All I am saying is don't expect the newer models to be that much better, because they aren't.
 
TBH the Ascent is very good. I preferred my Ascents driven by some big 211 valve based monos to the Summit driven by a Krell.

All I am saying is don't expect the newer models to be that much better, because they aren't.

I went and listened today. The front end consisted of:
Audio Research CD9
Audio Research Ref 5se
Audio Research Ref 150
All cables transparent Reference.

They had speakers set up much wider than I do at home and toed in more, this gave a wider deeper soundstage that worked great with well recorded stuff, but to me thinned out a little when the typical rock recordings I listen to were played. The bass modules were set flat though and I didn't mess with the settings. I have set mine up similarly over the years experimenting but they ultimately end up back were
they are now.
As you said user 211, I was surprised the system didn't totally squash my existing system as I expected. I will be asking my sales guy to keep an eye out if a used set comes in though, they are a very good looking speaker, and I am sure once in my system I could get them dialed in to my taste.
 
The better a system gets the worse rock sounds, especially as most rock recordings are compressed. I think rock it's best heard on a small kef standpoint type speaker. The system you heard was high class, and needs recordings with better mastering. Even dire straits and Floyd who have the best audiophile mastering in rock have a dynamic range much less than classical recordings

I started out trying to optimize my system for led zep, only to realize spending above 2k plateaus it. Also, what's the point of spending so much to listen to the same music I have enjoyed for years? So I am now letting hifi take me where I haven't gone before
 
It's easier to push 4 instruments, one in each frequency band. When you upgrade, differences become more steak when you try to push 40, with multiple instruments in a single band. Recently I auditioned the lampi 5 vs the 7, and the arc vs the NAT. In both cases, changes didn't seem worth it on most music until I got to orchestral, when it took two minutes to decide.
 
It's what I love about Logan's in general, they can play rock and are very non fatiguing. I'm sure zeppelin sounds far better on your system then one limited to 2k components. I know my ascents top end opened up a lot when I added the Levinson 332 amp. Prior to that I was using a proceed HPA2 which isn't a slouch, but was a lot darker.
 
It's what I love about Logan's in general, they can play rock and are very non fatiguing. I'm sure zeppelin sounds far better on your system then one limited to 2k components. I know my ascents top end opened up a lot when I added the Levinson 332 amp. Prior to that I was using a proceed HPA2 which isn't a slouch, but was a lot darker.

It doesn't. And I have played it on everything including an 80k Magico !q with 25k Koda pre, Esoteric top CD, etc etc, and it sounded no different. Some Acdc punch might have been better, but that's it. And the worst thing about hifi is it traps us to listening to good quality, best of Zeppelin is on bootlegs and youtube, not on LPs or CDs (except one). It will be really sad if I stop listening to their good stuff because I have a hifi. I would rather listen to what's good on hifi.

Anyway, you might enjoy rock on them compared to other speakers (I don't), but my point is neither you nor I will see justifiable mileage in upgrades on rock.

The other point is that AR is not the best amp for rock. You need to try a SS one with more bass punch like Krell. Hifinutt (Phil) has an MSB and it sounds punchier
 
You should consider using an active crossover for only the bass on the Ascents. That will make them compete with the newest biggest MLs. Same goes for pretty much any old ML...
 
I preferred my odysseys with new panels (already breaked in) to a couple of Ethos.... Just saying that somehow I expected more from the new logans...
 
Hola Bernardo. If you want, I can lend to you a pair of new Ethos and do the comparison one next to the other. I think that perhaps the Ethos that you listened, were not using the quality of your electronics. Happy listening!
 
It doesn't. And I have played it on everything including an 80k Magico !q with 25k Koda pre, Esoteric top CD, etc etc, and it sounded no different. Some Acdc punch might have been better, but that's it. And the worst thing about hifi is it traps us to listening to good quality, best of Zeppelin is on bootlegs and youtube, not on LPs or CDs (except one). It will be really sad if I stop listening to their good stuff because I have a hifi. I would rather listen to what's good on hifi.

Anyway, you might enjoy rock on them compared to other speakers (I don't), but my point is neither you nor I will see justifiable mileage in upgrades on rock.

The other point is that AR is not the best amp for rock. You need to try a SS one with more bass punch like Krell. Hifinutt (Phil) has an MSB and it sounds punchier


I was wondering the same thing about the amp as I listened.

There are some decent rock or at least "rockish" recordings out there. PJ Harvey, comes to mind. I took along a sound garden remaster, and the dhukes for this audition. The Dhukes are more of a folk rock thing, but there aren't tons of guitar going on, so as you said, it's much easier for everything to have its own space. Sound garden on the other hand has tons going on, but the system did do a great job of keeping it all in its own space.

Tosh. I'll have to. Look in to the active crossover option. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
Hola Bernardo. If you want, I can lend to you a pair of new Ethos and do the comparison one next to the other. I think that perhaps the Ethos that you listened, were not using the quality of your electronics. Happy listening!

Hi Roberto, I listened to a pair of CLXs which didn't sound different from my Summits. Can you please send me a CLX on loan as well, just to be sure
 
You are too much Kedar...if you were close as Bermardo is, I will love to do it. The CLX model, being that big, it plays beautiful in small rooms as in big rooms. I do not know what these guys from ML did. but I could not do this with other models as good the CLXs. Another feature that I do like with newer models, is the ability to allow to you, the use of small power amplifiers. I have a customer who is using a Viva 22 watts/channel integrated amplifier driving a pair of Montis with outstanding results. He is getting a very wide and truly 3D stage with tons of resolution, steady with the right size of instruments, percussion is very dynamic, wind instruments are awesome, strings are not strident, and vocals are there, in front of your seat. It plays better small combos or camera orchestra, but overall sound is truly an experience. There is no mess at all. He is using Auralex acoustic treatment for his room, and I really did enjoy his music and room very much. Happy listening!
 
You should consider using an active crossover for only the bass on the Ascents. That will make them compete with the newest biggest MLs. Same goes for pretty much any old ML...

I'm going to try this out with my vistas this morning. I have 2 MiniDSP PWR-ICE 250 plate amps that (for a start) I'll use to power the woofer sections. A Question: Do I just bypass the woofers' crossover completely (run direct from binding posts to terminals on woofer)?
 

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