Any other big amps that should be considered?

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Wrong. The class D in nuforce, class d audio and Rogue have already passed the critics reviews. None of the old school digital switching glare. I know of two people that dumped $6,000 and $7000 tube amps (Cary, Manley) and switched to the class d audio amps. Also 1 person that left Bryston.

It's not the snob-rejected class D sound of a few years ago. I would not accept that either.
 
Actually I heard a pro-studio class D called Crown which costs only 500 quid and is 500w which was very good, ABed it with Audio Research. As good
 
How do you compare the crown to class D, rogue or nuforce?
 
By plugging them into a stereo system and listening, the same way you compare any other products.

Lol. My question was more like what's your opinion regarding the differences between them?
 
Class D audio wins. The Rogue Sphinx is nice, but it's hybrid class D, not the power I am after....though it's plenty for normal listening levels. The nuforce isn't as powerful as the class D audio, but hey...at least it's more expensive.
 
Problem is muliple with the new breed of class D amps, independant of what they sound like...

1) The phrase "class D" is kryptonite to audio snobs who won't give it the time of day, or they will listen with extreme prejudice and hear whats not there just because that is their prejudice. A double blind abx/dbt would solve this, but in the world of snobbery, that is somehow considered "inconclusive" but cable risers and shun-mook disks make "A night and day difference"

2) The unit are not expensive enough, no boutique or prestige pricing to be taken seriously by deep-pocketed types

3) Aesthetics.... no gold-plated milled chassis with mahogany inlays to wow those that shop with their eyes.

4) lack of esoteric name... they need to be called something French like "orgasme du sain" to appeal.

5) they are not super heavy and don't run hot ...so therefore they must not be proper audio gear.

It's a tough product to sell to the high end community.
 
Well, I can certainly relate to your impressions of the old guard, so to speak. Not 5 minutes ago, I ordered a pair of these : http://www.minidsp.com/products/plate-amplifiers/pwr-ice250

to try going active on my Vistas.
The other side of the coin, however, is that the companies that produce the high priced gear also do a lot of the important R&D that eventually trickles down into the gear I can afford to buy. Each different technology has its place; we can probably agree on that, because there are obviously enough buyers to support all the players. If you compare these different technologies to the automotive industry, you can then see a clear difference between the economy models and the luxury models, each having their own benefits and drawbacks. Audio gear is much same, and differences are equally apparent. The point you may be arguing is parallel to the following comparison:

The Mercedes Benz SL 63 will do something like 185 mph, and very quickly at that. The Ariel Atom will do the same top speed, get there faster, for less than half the price. If speed is your only requirement, the Atom is for you, but the vehicles are very different, and the Merc is "better" in many ways. It all depends on what you're trying to achieve, IMHO.
 
EGAD...I hate automotive metaphors for other high end products....I really do. There are too many variables in high end autos like a Lamborghini which might cause people to wet their pants, but that exotoc engine needs a tune up in 6,000 miles, not 100,000 at the cost of tens of grand. Other exotic cars can outperform the lambo and don't require such intensive and expensive maintenance.

But... A lot of pricing in the high end is related to cosmetics and arbitrary pricing. Not any standard formula. They price it aimed at what that market segment will bear. I have heard R&D quoted often for massive cash outlay by companies. Once a baseline product is established, it's tweaking the components and output....not some grand project like crash and climate testing.

The corners cut for the budget models may just be cosmetic (and psychological) more than some great improvements in parts. Not long ago, the snob-o-sphere touted 2 things (and the rest is "garbage" or "pedestrian" 1) Single digit wattage SET amps 2) class A solid state amps. Now with technology, computer assisted design and testing...we can have amps run topologies that are more efficient power wise, yet are able to produce top notch fidelity and power output without the need for bulkier and costlier parts.

The average cd player now is better than anything produced in the 1980's and often 1990's. An oppo player ($599) does anything that a $4,000 LINN cd player did just a few years ago. Not to mention it supports dvd-a, sacd, blue ray, dvd and cd. Listening and measuring supports this.

So the only automotive metaphor that I can accept to be sure, is that compare the quality of a honda car now vs ANYTHING in 1985. Not even close. New robots and computer control make more precise fitting parts with more accurate welds, paint and better electronics. Stick a crappy little chevy engine in a stainless steel body with gull wing doors, and it's might LOOK cool, but it's basically poorly performing crap. No value except for appearance and the required "outatime" plates.

That is also incidentally why the $2,100 ML ESL are superior to quad and acoustat ones. Technology has advanced, even if old guard attitudes have not.

And any argument about "Silk purse from a sows ear" is invalid, because accuracy and performance is accuracy and performance regardless of price tag or appearance.
 
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I was just making sure that I was one for performance....not hype. I always said that a component can be boring and flat black so long as it performs amazingly. I am waiting for a new class d audio preamp to come out soon. My days of spending the earth on gear is over.
 
I was just making sure that I was one for performance....not hype. I always said that a component can be boring and flat black so long as it performs amazingly. I am waiting for a new class d audio preamp to come out soon. My days of spending the earth on gear is over.

Lol! I have never been able to bring myself to pay full retail for anything. My entire system consists of pieces that were purchased at a discount. What is the best deal you've ever gotten?
 
Probably a set of VMPS ST/R SE (Super tower ribbons). I got them for about $2,800 at a time that they were selling for $4800. New pushpull neodymium ribbons and woven carbon fiber woofers. That, and someone gave away a Threshold stasis amp for $2000...it's a $6500 amp. I had it upgraded by the tech for $500. It was better than new.
Got a LINN LP-12 with Ittok arm for $1200.

A lot of my high end deals came before the internet was a major online buying source like audiogon and ebay.

Generally, I don't like "used" more than a few years old anyway.
 
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Lol! I have never been able to bring myself to pay full retail for anything. My entire system consists of pieces that were purchased at a discount. What is the best deal you've ever gotten?

I remember reading a post here a while ago (can't remember from who) who found his pair of Prodigies out for council collection on the side of the road!

That's my dream :)
 
The closest I got to that was a pair of polk audio monitor 7's for $100. I upgraded the crossovers to 1% metal poly and installed a pair of sl2000 tweeters. Amazing sound...very transparent and detailed. I still have them in my PC sound system. I bought some basket case Bose 901's with stands and eq for $150. I replaced/refoamed all the drivers and overhauled the eq with metal poly caps. Get to resell the system for $700-$800.
 
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