BF212 + CLX impression.

BF212 Sub Woofers

I recently added two BF212 Sub Woofers to my CLX's and the difference was more than I really expected. I was using two well known 10” powered subs before and the changes were well worth the effort to move these 145 pound monsters. The picture of the BF212 next to the single CLX makes the woofer look big? Don't worry, it will be JUST as big in your room! I'm sure glad the visible finish is excellent as you do see them. There was one finish error inside onside one woofer grill location that appears to be an improperly finished gloss black area, and it was a dull whitish smear about the size of a fifty cent piece. Odd.

I have a weird room (don't we almost all) that is “L” shapes so one sub is in the corner and the other is in the open end of the L. If I set-up the subs as directed, with a master / slave arrangement it seems that the EQ is a compromise to the vastly different room loadings. I loaded the CLX cross-over slope and then did an initial PBK. May as well listen to the break-in somewhat close to flat.

Placement was just behind each CLX with the woofers pointed at an angle to the rear wall. I did a sweep and the curve was the expected rise starting at about 40 Hz and gradually UP, up and up to 20 Hz (my room is a LONG 39 feet!). That long dimension aggravates the lowest frequency resonance. Can the PBK fix it?

This is a dedicated 2.1 only system, so I PBK'ed the two subs as SEPARATE Left and Right channels to “flat” This way, EACH sub is as flat as it can be in the unique spot it resides. Then, I adjusted the level as needed with a 30 and 50 Hz tone to get the same output in the main seating location(s).

The PBK is almost a let-down as it is SO EASY to do. There is no reason to wait till the subs break-in for 50 hours to get them close to room corrected. Just do it again every once and awhile. I used the V2.07 software and has zero issues using it. They really do mean it when they say it take but 5 minutes to EQ a sub (actually less than ten minutes for both). Somehow you hope to screw around with it more as effort equals results. In this case, near no effort equals results. My traces were less than 2 dB off the calculated curve till 25 Hz where the room resonance pushed either sub up about 4-5 dB. I removed this some with the 25 Hz knob, backing it off a few dB until I decided I LIKED the extra deep oomph. OK, not accurate but fun!

Two BF212 seems like overkill? Maybe. But, the effect is for a more even blend of bass and resolution than “loudness”. The cone excursion is much smaller with four 12” drivers each with it's own 800 watt amplifier, which keeps IM and Doppler distortion low and resolution and quickness high. That's the idea, anyway.

Does it work? Compared to my older subs, which are admirably good by the way, the BF212 do indeed add a level of bass refinement I haven't heard. They reach much deeper and it gets better the deeper the music goes than my replacements. But, to tell WHAT was changing I had to listen to two complete .wav file RIP CD's of various artists several times. And, I had to keep from tuning each song! After several, several songs I could start to tell the sound of the “sub” over the sound of the “music”. It turns out, most music has TERRIBLE bass. The subs come through crystal clear and with amazing resolution on my better material and well, let the bad stuff still sound bad. My replacement subs were “warmer” and tended to diminish the big differences in the bass. I suppose this can be heard as good or bad. I wonder if the recording studios can even hear the bass properly when it is done, or just “guess”? It sure sounds like they guess to me as vastly different bass resolution and level jumps are heard from song to song.

The aluminum cone drivers are faster, and register stronger tighter reverberations WAY deep. OK, they aren't 7 Hz Paradigm SUB1 levels of deepness but they are VERY musically matched to the CLX with a faster, more resolving sound down to a reported 18 Hz. My test tones are easily heard at 15 Hz setting on up. Set-up is still key to the bass quality, though. These subs will squish your head clean-off with too aggressive level or 25 Hz settings.

On records, which to my ear have much more consistent bass, the sound is really nice. Tight and crisp. Yes, you can turn up the level to stupid levels if you want without stressing them at all. YOU on the other hand will be! Bruce Cockburn's, Dancing in the Dragon's jaws was a delight with these subs. And, to my ear they do blend well with the CLX. Achieving a, “are they really on?” level of blending isn't too hard. Even with dynamic driver speakers, though, a LOT of bass is so artificially done it is “bass” and then the rest of the music so I can't blame ESL speakers for that situation.

As hard as good bass is to record or play, the PBK with the BF212 subs does seem to really do the job, though. No, this isn't an easy study as so much is influencing what you hear; subs, placement, room, recording ETC. The quality of these subs with PBK seem to mitigate as much as can be expected the hardware side of the equation. And, it is SO EASY to do.

As good as the BF212's are now, maybe 15 hours on them, I don't expect them to surprise me in a negative fashion....likely the opposite as they gain quickness and resolution.

I'd love to hear other impressions of these subs general sound quality. So far they are on the dryer side of warm, and right where I like it. Some may favor the “warm” tone of bass. I'm more the crisper listener as my choice of main speaker would attest. More resolution and less warmth is a sound I like more than the opposite. For folk music (most of what I play; Bruce Cockburn, Peter Paul and Mary, Neil Diamond, Linda Ronstadt, ETC) the BF212 and CLX are excellent choices. Don't get me wrong, the set-up plays my Super tramp fine, too.

You will forget that they are on once set-up right...just don't expect to not see them in the room!

Would be great to hear from someone that has compared the new subs to the Descent I's. I am using a pair of them with my clx's and to be honest they are on such a low volume that I doubt the new subs would make a big difference.
M.

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Descent 1 and BF212 - different "depth" of sonic exposure.

Well, my friends have a Descent one they use with the THEOS main's. The bass is very good but the dual 212's reach WAY deeper and with MUCH better authority way down low. The reverberations feel like granite walking through the room and then through you. I've NEVER heard bass as good as this EXCEPT with a Large REL GIBRALTAR G-1 sub (one) with MAGICO S5's in a near field set-up. The REL's are, of course, designed as true subs only, and won't work too well with the CLX. Didn't care for the S-5's softness, unlike the Q series, which is crisper sounding to me. But the REL was a real good sub, the first I hear that told me more was there in the bass than boom.

No, the BF212's won't add mid bass impact to the CLX so they aren't magic subs but, the impact that they do provide tricks your ears into hearing "more" than is there. I don't seem to notice the mid bass softness anymore. The "tonality" of the mid bass is even better with the BF212's though, as they allow the CLX to keep their open, crisp and fast sound than my previous subs. If you want IMPACT, get the SUMMIT model, they lose some mid range holographic image detail but do PUNCH in the mid bass. Voices are too important to my ear, so I went the CLX route. Tasts vary.

In the past I wasn't ever too concerned about bass as it was more an "impact" sport without much musical detail until I got a set of the BF212's. These subs can be aggressive or gentle and crisp or warm depending on the music. Every note is played, heard and felt. They play it like it is better than I've ever gotten used to. I'm NOT saying that the Descent 1's aren't good, but the BF212 take the bass all the way to the basement with absolute authority. The effortlessness matches the CLX's upper octave ease of delivery. Nothing sound pushed or created. It's a beautiful thing. They open up the sound stage and you fall right in.

Here (hear?) is the problem...these things get expensive FAST. A very good friend told me weeks before he passed away to get the two subs and don't look back, I'll never regret the cost. Few things have managed to keep that promise. The BF212's indeed do the deed.

One caveat, bass being the crazy stuff that it is, set-up and EQ is key to a decent (descent) audition. The BF212 subs bare naked with no EQ are NOT going to impress you with anything but BOOM unless you are in a near infinite baffle like HUGE room. The PBK is the magic to taming the average room. I'd have the dealer SHOW YOU the EQ when you listen and load the right low pass filter for the mains. This takes near NO TIME at all. If they balk, I have to wonder why they carry this level of equipment. Subs with no digital filtering don't stand a chance at matching a wide variety of rooms. And un EQ'ed you aren't hearing the subs at all. THAT is the big problem with subs.

You said if you want impact use Summit. For dynamic orchestral performances, where do you get more slam, Summits, or a CLX with a BF212

..You said if you want impact use Summit. For dynamic orchestral performances, where do you get more slam, Summits, or a CLX with a BF212...

That "punch" I'm referring to is in the upper mid bass dynamic region (60-200 Hz or so). The bass panel in the CLX has a dynamic limitation as to how far it can "punch" before it gets so close to the stators that the panel will discharge the electrostatic field (blue flash!). Cone drivers are still the best for that punch (like my Dynaudio C-4's Signatures) but lose detail in the process of their brute force nature. Yes, the panel can be made bigger, and bigger to gain dynamics at a size / cost issue.

The CLX keep SUPERB tonality and definition over all out "impact" in the mid bass region. But, the stereo 212 subs BELOW 60 Hz just KILL the C-4's or the summit in definition and control. You now have FOUR 12" drivers and each with it's own 800 watt continuous amplifier! THAT really wakes up the bass and the PBK is a killer system to really get the bass right. Subs with no good EQ are no bargain in my book as the bass response is so highly room dependent. The SUMMIT doesn't have this advantage down low (25 Hz EQ knob helps). Remember, the SUMMIT plays the two 10" aluminum bass drivers well "up" into the mid range where the conical driver deliver that sock-it-to-ya punch at the expense of lifelike detail. But sock-it-to-ya they do!

So it is a give and take with about all speakers below $50,000 it seems. For me, the CLX with stereo BF212's are an excellent trade-off as the crazy good deep dynamic range with four 12" subs going is great (think kettle drums or the woody draw of a bass violin bow). Those massive deep musical floors of orchestral pieces are wonderfully powerful aided by the huge open sound stage of the CLX.

If you listen to music that is more mid bass oriented (think snare drum SLAP the blat of six trombones) the CLX will be a softer impact presentation but vividly detailed in coherence and tonality over "power" to the chest.

You will NOT mistake the strengths of each speaker for the other. And to me, the CLX has to have the BF212 (two is preferred for smoothness of bass response, but expensive) subs. Yes, some listen with bare naked CLX panels but I can't ignore so much music below 50 Hz. The CLX simply disappear below 50 Hz in my room. I view the CLX as a $33,000.00 speaker (two BF212 subs). For that sum, it is still a mighty good bargain for all it does so well.

The SUMMIT is a hugely good deal as it can stand on it's own from 30 Hz to 20 KHz for $15,000.00. For some, this is all it takes to make the decision. You lose some low bass control and mid range coherence and resolution but another $18,000.00 worth? THAT difference number is as personal as your underwear, only you can understand it.

One note, if you use SUMMIT with TWO BF212 subs yes, you will get DEEP and MID bass slam at the expense of some detail and coherence. The conical drivers can't get the coherence and micro dynamic detail of the CLX panels. But if the question is "slam" yes, the SUMMIT with two BF212's would certainly be the best. My Signature C4's are even better than the SUMMIT in SLAM and dynamics but...my mind keeps listening to the mid range, especially the human voice. Here the SUMMIT is better than the C-4's, and the CLX more so than the SUMMIT.

For me, the micro dynamic nature of the fragile human voice is much too important to remove from music, and is an at all cost requirement to me. "Slam" is still plenty good with the CLX and BF212's and WAY more subjectively ignored than vocal distortion.

Again, if you listen to the SUMMIT and then the CLX with BF212 subs you will understand the CLX mid range. It is magical for a speaker under $50.000. It beats most ANY speaker in the middle, actually.