Dolby Atmos - Speaker selection and setup

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JonFo

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Now that 3D audio is arriving with the introduction of Dolby Atmos enabled gear and software in the fall of 2014, it's time to address the challenge of how to implement this innovation using our favorite speaker brand.

Since the big deal in Atmos is mostly about the introduction of the height channels, we'll focus the discussion on options for ways of reproducing those.
Atmos builds on existing 5.1 and 7.1 home theater layouts with the addition of two or four height channels (as a minimum, many more speakers will be supported by advanced processors). So you will see descriptions like 5.1.2, which means a standard surround setup + two height channels centered over the listening area, and 5.1.4, which is std surround + four overheads, two slightly ahead of the listeners, two slightly behind.

But before we dive into specifics about speakers, let's understand that there are two ways to achieve 'sound coming from above': One is to use reflection bounced off the ceiling towards the listeners, the other is to have ceiling-mounted (surface or in-ceiling) directly radiate down onto the listening area.

Let's tackle the reflected sound topic first, as that's what many will wind up doing due to WAF, effort, etc.
Now, before anyone goes all snooty on how reflected sound is not cool, please remember that every ESL speaker is radiating 100% of the same information towards the wall behind them and that reflected energy is deemed to add to the ESL 'ambiance' many of you cherish ;)

Reflecting off the ceiling does entail a few constraints:
  • The ceiling must be reasonably flat (no vaulted rooms need apply)
  • Height of the ceiling should be between 8’ and 15’

So reflecting sound from a low-mounted speaker aimed at the ceiling using the right angles can result in pretty decent ‘height speaker’ image being received at the listening positions. The challenge is to ensure the unit does not have too wide a dispersion characteristic nor tries to reproduce too wide a range of sound (lest it be localized before the bounce from the ceiling).

An ideal Atmos-ready ceiling reflection speaker would meet the narrow dispersion characteristic, so I expect ML to engineer a specific add-on speaker tailored for this use based on one of the existing models. If it were me, I’d start with something like the ElectroMotion-IC which thanks to placing the tweeter inside the mid-range driver and angling it, is already pretty close to what we want. I’d add a wave-guide to limit dispersion if necessary, then put it in a box sized to support the intended frequency range (since that’s limited, the box would be pretty small), then design the slope of the baffle such that when the base is flat, the angle would work well in most normal-sized rooms and with ceiling in the height range mentioned above.

That would result in a box that could even be styled to look appropriate when sitting on top of a Motion 40.

These speakers (or even existing small Motion-series units) could be placed in the room such that their bounce covered the target area. So height at 45” to say 6’ (depending on ceiling and other considerations).

The minimum would be two for basic height information, which will add dramatically to the experience. I’d place them to the sides of the listeners and above the seated heads so any direct sound from them would appear ‘above’ the listeners.

If using four reflected speakers, then I’d place them in-line with the fronts and rear-backs, aiming the bounce into the listening area.
There’s much more to discuss about reflected speaker setups, so I’m pretty sure we’ll have lots of Q&A about this in this thread.

So on to direct radiators mounted overhead. Again, there are two approaches, use existing box speakers and attach to the ceiling or install flush in-celling models. The cleanest looking options would be to use models like the EM-IC or EM-R and mount them in-ceiling. That would be the ideal from a visual standpoint and still deliver very good ‘overhead channel’ performance.

For higher-performance dedicated spaces (like my HT with its flat-black 10’ ceilings), bracket-mounted box speakers would work well, especially when using four or more units. If picking from the ML line, a set of Motion 15’s would be my choice.

Now, for the tricky part, using ESL’s for height channels. Here, I’d suggest that only one center-channel model would do, and that your ceiling must be >10’ tall before these might work. The dispersion characteristics here are a bit of challenge, but two Motif X’s mounted parallel to the seating positions (long part running down the sides, narrow ends pointed at front/back) and slightly outboard of the seats but aimed at them could work well enough.

BTW- only the Motif X might work, as it absorbs the majority of its panel’s rear wave.

So there you have it, some approaches on dealing with this new dimension in home theater and surround sound. Let’s hear what questions you have about this interesting topic.
 
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Oof, that got a bit long, but there is lot's of ground to cover on this topic.

Please edit your quoting of the above so we don't all have to scroll through all that again ;)
 
Oh my Jonathan …………… more to confuse this 'Ole two channel fart' !!
 
Start saving your pennies, Jonathan.:)

155l5if.jpg

Full 32 channel rendering, Atmos and Auro (and probably more to come).
 
I think this is similar to the Auro 3d sound http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auro_11.1

I had once posted having heard a Dirac 13.4 system, those guys are using this. Sound comes from above the listener as well
Both Auro and Atmos are object-based (with bed channels) 3D audio rendering systems being used in movie (and soon TV) mastering. Dirac is solely room correction.

The nice thing about the Altitude linked above is that it incorporates both types of 3D movie encode and SoTA room correction and Trinnov's proprietary speaker remapping.
 
Start saving your pennies, Jonathan.:)

[yummy pic of Trinnov Altitude32]

Full 32 channel rendering, Atmos and Auro (and probably more to come).

Yep, been following that story well Ken. My conundrum now is that I'll never be able to afford that 2015 Acura NSX I want.

I'll blow the wad on that Trinnov box. Boy, they sure named it right 'Altitude' as in 'a really tall pile of cash required'. That or $30K will do :p
 
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Yep, been following that story well Ken. My conundrum now is that I'll never be able to afford that 2015 Acura NSX I want.

I'll blow the wad on that Trinnov box. Boy, they sure named it right 'Altitude' a in 'a really tall pile of cash required'. That or $30K will do :p
If you're serious, give Curt Hoyt a call. He's the US Distributor and a genuinely nice guy. Price is very much TBD, despite what Anthem may be posting, but I'd guess $30K is in the ballpark for the 32 ch version.
 
Ken, I think I'd need an 18ch version minimum (5 x 2 biamped + 4 heights + 2 sides + 2 subs) so a 24ch model is what I'm likely winding up with.

Not sure I'd put more speakers in the room. A 7.2.4 is pretty comprehensive coverage, especially when five of them are 6' tall line-sources :rocker:

Thanks for the info, I'll give Hoyt a call.
 
BTW- before the rest of you start to freak out about costs, there are a ton of new receivers and processors coming out over the next year that will support Atmos, so starting in the $600 range Onkyo, Pioneer and Denon will be offering AVR's.

Moving up, Marantz and Onkyo / Integra will be offering $1,500 to $2,500 pre-pro's. So I imagine many of you would be in the ballpark of a Marantz 7702 or 8802 preamp arriving next January.
 
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Hi Dave, yes, this is a new frontier. Upwards and onwards as some might say ;)

Complexity geeks like me totally dig this stuff. But if you are happy with 2ch, then please, keep on enjoying it. It won't go bad just because some new whiz-bang 3D audio tech showed up in its infancy. This will be evolving rapidly over the next few years.
 
Is there a phase problem between the front two and the surround speakers here? Some have warned me that if the phase doesn't match it won't sound right.

Also, Auro seems to recommend direct radiators.

Hearing that Atmos is better for movies, Auro for music.

Jon, do you see any advantages in listening to music over 2-ch instead of a quality Auro/Atmos Mch?
 
Hearing that Atmos is better for movies, Auro for music.
Kedar, who do you know who's done a fair comparison of upmixing in the same system, including the same processor? No one has, because they can't.

Let's wait until we have one or more pre/pros that process both codecs. Then, and only then will we be able to obtain an honest comparison.
 
I think next Q both Datasat and Trinnov should have both? Is Trinnov only in Altitude, or does it have a cheaper version for Mch that will have this (16 channels)
 
I think next Q both Datasat and Trinnov should have both? Is Trinnov only in Altitude, or does it have a cheaper version for Mch that will have this (16 channels)
Datasat currently offers an Auro upgrade for IIRC $3K. They've said that they'll have Atmos available sometime in 2015, upgrade cost unknown. No comment, yet, re: DTS' object oriented codec, currently called UHD, though the name will change pretty soon to avoid confusion with UHD video.

Trinnov's Altitude is their only pre/pro with decoding, and it does include both Auro and Atmos within the base cost. Might be that it will include UHD, as well, when it's released. Something to consider: Because the Trinnov gear is all Linux PC-based, adding these new codecs is done via simple software download vs. additional hardware required for Datasat.
 
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So UHD does the same thing?
DTS UHD is the home audio version of MDS, DTS' object based cinema mixing process, which will make it's debut next year. When the dust settles in a few years, it's likely DTS and Dolby will be duking it out in the cinema and home marketplace, with Auro an also ran.
 
Is there a phase problem between the front two and the surround speakers here? Some have warned me that if the phase doesn't match it won't sound right.

The speaker/room correction system in these units will ensure that the speakers are in phase, and warn you if they think they are miss-wired. In MCH rigs, getting delay, phase and level matching is critical, and a well-run setup of the Audyssey, Dirac or Trinnov RC is important. See my sticky thread on how to run a good setup for ML's.

For instance, my MCH system is 5 ESL's + 2 cone side speakers (broad dispersion Mirage Omni FX's), and the blend is seamless.

Jon, do you see any advantages in listening to music over 2-ch instead of a quality Auro/Atmos Mch?

While a good 2ch setup exists in any good MCH system, and I use 2ch occasionally for certain recordings, I generally find that upmixes to MCH are much nicer on my system. The new processors feature a new Dolby Surround that upmixes everything from 2ch audio to 5.1 movies into the full 3D space created by the 7.1.4 layout (or whatever you deploy). Supposedly it's quite good. I have yet to hear it myself, but Dolby has been at this a long time and has been doing tons of research (lots of AES papers on related topics) so I expect it to perform well.

Now the main point of a MCH system is to listen to MCH recordings (and movies). So I have a ton of music in high-rez MCH and it blows away even my best 2CH recordings/playback. For instance, the 3D audio recording a pipe organ in a European cathedral is supposed to be mind-blowing. Can’t wait for modern MCH masters like Steve Wilson to publish an Atmos encoded disc one of these days. What he did with 5.1 on Storm Corrosion and the Raven that Refused to Sing is absolutely brilliant, so a whole extra dimension for him to paint his soundscapes on is going to a be a real treat.
 
Yes, I heard the church organ, and I have heard a real one at St. Paul's cathedral. This reproduction was superb
 
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