Summit X's for nearfield listening?

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alwayslearning

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I'm considering replacing my Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage monitors with Martin Logan Summit X's. Loved the MF midrange and vast soundstage when I auditioned them recently. They'll be powered a pair of Jeff Rowland 501 mono amps and a Zesto Leto tube preamp.

My listening area is small, 11' wide by 12' deep. I need to have the speakers along the 11' wall. I know that room acoustics are profoundly important and I'll explore treatments down the road. First a few questions for folks who own the Summit X's:

1) What is your experience listening to the Summit X's nearfield? What distance(s) have you found that sound good in your environment?

2) Any folks drive, or listened to, the Summit X's with Jeff Rowland 501's or 201"s?

3) Any rumors/news of ML replacing the Summit X?

Thanks in advance, Musically, Ken near Seattle WA
 
I'm considering replacing my Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage monitors with Martin Logan Summit X's. Loved the MF midrange and vast soundstage when I auditioned them recently. They'll be powered a pair of Jeff Rowland 501 mono amps and a Zesto Leto tube preamp.

My listening area is small, 11' wide by 12' deep. I need to have the speakers along the 11' wall. I know that room acoustics are profoundly important and I'll explore treatments down the road. First a few questions for folks who own the Summit X's:

1) What is your experience listening to the Summit X's nearfield? What distance(s) have you found that sound good in your environment?

2) Any folks drive, or listened to, the Summit X's with Jeff Rowland 501's or 201"s?

3) Any rumors/news of ML replacing the Summit X?

Thanks in advance, Musically, Ken near Seattle WA

I think 11' should be ok but I am 15.5 deep with Summits. I can't tell you if 12' works but I think you should try to demo both X and Ethos if you can to see which fits best and then decide for yourself.
 
All I am saying is don't assume big is best. Room matters. I do wonder how the ethos would have done in mine
 
I have Summits and JR 201s in a 22'x14 foot room with a cathedral ceiling. I keep the summits about 3 feet off back wall and "blow" lengthwise to listening position about 12 feet from the front of speakers. Thrilling huge soundstage with wonderful imaging. Note that I regret having all my gear in a single wall outlet with a Panamax Pro conditioner. There is definitely some dynamic range lost with conditioner but I'm solving all this building a new house down south. Move in date is spring 2015.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Another vote for an Ethos in that room. Besides a more compact panel, the Ehtos has a better panel/woofer integration and mid-bass thanks to the active corrections via the DSP .

If you want realistic bass, then two Dynamo 1500x (with PBK) will do the job, one in the middle front of the room, one in the middle back of the room.

So for less than the cost of summits, you could have an ideal configurations with right-sized panels, great mid-bass and awesome bass (thanks to 2 subs correctly placed and EQ'd to neutralize room modes)

Also, use some of the money saved for room treatments, both behind the front set and just as importantly, the rear wall, as the reflections that close to the listeners ears can really kill imaging. Also, bass trapping that rear wall will reduce the bass peak typical of sitting close to a wall.

Remember, bigger is not better if the result is over-energizing the room and creating modal ringing. Trust me, been there done that with Monoliths, boy can they overpower a room. HF ringing is not pleasant.
 
Oh, and if this is a dedicated listening area and WAF not a big factor, do plan on creating a stand for the speakers that allows you to raise the panel and set the rake to perfectly vertical, as that is the ultimate in performance, since you are not energizing the upper rear wall / ceiling reflection points. This is applicable to all current ML's except the CLX.
 
Thanks JonFo.
Unfortunately my room is not a dedicated listening room. Curious though- wondering why the Ethos has DSP room correction, while the more expensive, two-bass Summit X does not have DSP? Seems backwards to me.
 
The summit X pre-dates the Ethos and Montis line, so those later models have the more advanced DSP corrections for their woofers. They do not have room correction, as that would be done in the PrePro. Now the subs with PBK do room correction for their frequency ranges.
 
Oh, and if this is a dedicated listening area and WAF not a big factor, do plan on creating a stand for the speakers that allows you to raise the panel and set the rake to perfectly vertical, as that is the ultimate in performance, since you are not energizing the upper rear wall / ceiling reflection points. This is applicable to all current ML's except the CLX.

Hi Jon,

In a near future, I'd like to upgrade my set of Purity to Summit X.

My first question: what do you mean by not energizing the upper real wall?

ML manual shows that Summit X can be vertically tilted at either 1 degree or -1 degree. isn't perfectly vertical when the panel is at 0 degree? is it possible to set the Summit X panel at 0 degree?

How high should the Summit X speakers should be raised? the spike heights are not sufficient?

I'll also add room treatments.

Speaker Placement.jpg

Fron Setup.jpg

Open to the kitchen.jpg

rear speakers.jpg
 
mmm, that's a fairly small room to put summits in . would they be fully utilised in such a small room ? I am not sure
 
mmm, that's a fairly small room to put summits in . would they be fully utilised in such a small room ? I am not sure

The room is 11 feet wide, 17.5 long and 9 feet high. As of now, the Purity set is 2.5 feet from the side walls (curtains to the right and to the left, it is open).

The Summits will be 1 to 1.5 feet from the side walls and 3 feet from the front wall.

The distance from the panels to the main listening position will be 13 to 14 feet.

Since Summit X has wider panels, it can easily cover the two seats in the middle much better than Purity.

Summix is only 3 inch wider and 7 inch deeper than Purity.
 
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Sharok - that kind of space is definitely OK with Ascents, so it will be OK for Summits. Very definitely so IMHO. Try it and you'll know I am right:)

Mind you the sweet spot of Summits is really narrow. Within an inch or two really right bang in the centre of them. The curved panels make that the case - only a small part actually radiates towards your ear directly. You should use the flashlight technique to make sure they are lined up correctly. One downside to MLs but they do so much well, I put up with it for nearly two decades!
 
Sharok - that kind of space is definitely OK with Ascents, so it will be OK for Summits. Very definitely so IMHO. Try it and you'll know I am right:)

Mind you the sweet spot of Summits is really narrow. Within an inch or two really right bang in the centre of them. The curved panels make that the case - only a small part actually radiates towards your ear directly. One downside to MLs but they do so much well, I put up with it for nearly two decades!

To be honest with you, it is my wife who insists on Summit X. She auditioned those at LMC in Phoenix and fell in love with those.

We'll upgrade the TV to a larger one, so the distance between the speakers will be wider (right now they're 6 feet apart from the panel centers).

The curtains are sound absorber from quiet curtains. They were the best sound absorbing curtains I could find in the States (I special ordered them from San Diego):

http://www.acoustic-curtains.com/lab_results/AB11-130crescent-velour-NRC-pleated.pdf

Purity is an OK speaker, but we thought the larger Summit X panel will give us a little better sweet spot (for two seats) compared to Purity.

Do you agree?
 
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I still think it'll be pretty narrow. Fine for movies, but really serious listening you'll want to be right in the middle. Well, I would anyway.

I will say Neolith was\is the best ML I have heard WRT sweet spot size but those panels really are huge.
 
I still think it'll be pretty narrow. Fine for movies, but really serious listening you'll want to be right in the middle. Well, I would anyway.

I will say Neolith was\is the best ML I have heard WRT sweet spot size but those panels really are huge.

You're absolutely correct. For music listening, The center seat between the two speakers is the best spot. Regarding Neolith, they're huge and very expensive.
 
Sharok - I'd love to tell you otherwise, but I'd be pushing what I think is the truth. Some people may be more or less sensitive to it than I am, though.

EDIT: cross post. Anyway you know I am right:D
 
Hi Sharok, your room actually looks good for the Summits, with space behind the listener's position, at the side, etc. And don't keep them too far apart. One thing I would recommend is try losing that big cabinet in between, it affects sound, try to keep the rack smaller, or even better, if you can, move it to the side (I can't, but wish I could). And don't damp the room with absorbers initially, set your system up, then see what acoustic treatment you prefer. Some prefer it deader, some livelier. Your corners behind the speakers might need some bass traps, and I would actually recommend Shakti Haliographs, but don't want to close the thread
 
Hi Sharok, your room actually looks good for the Summits, with space behind the listener's position, at the side, etc. And don't keep them too far apart. One thing I would recommend is try losing that big cabinet in between, it affects sound, try to keep the rack smaller, or even better, if you can, move it to the side (I can't, but wish I could). And don't damp the room with absorbers initially, set your system up, then see what acoustic treatment you prefer. Some prefer it deader, some livelier. Your corners behind the speakers might need some bass traps, and I would actually recommend Shakti Haliographs, but don't want to close the thread

Hi bonzo,

How are you doing?

The rack will be gone soon all together. The Anthem P5 (in the left corner) which I purchased to be used with Summit X will come in the middle with no racks, an Oppo BD and a dish network sat box will accompany the P5.
For the front corners, I was thinking of ready acoustics Chameleon NEST 2 layer corner traps and 2 GIK 242 (like yours) or 244 panels for the rear wall to replace the paintings.

I still do not know how to raise the Summit X? Is it even necessary to do that? I asked Jonfo, but I think he hasn't checked the thread yet.

I checked the Townshend Stella, but in order to completely connect the speaker with Stella (decouple the speaker), I have to take the legs off, doing that will tilt the Summits back a little and I cannot get them perfectly vertical.

Leaving the spikes and placing the speakers on Stella, will defeat the purpose of the Stella speaker stand (which is decoupling the speaker).

What would you suggest?
 
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