Steve, and a curmudgeon to boot ! ………. :devil:
Dedicated CD Player
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Steve, and a curmudgeon to boot ! ………. :devil:
amey01
Well-known member
I'll be the dinasour and be damned proud of it.
I love my Cary and when it is time to replace, it will either be a unit made by Playback Designs or the DCS Puccini with clock, both of which cost alot more (retail) than $6,500.
You're missing out without a music server Gordon.
You're all-digital though with DSD to boot. So I wouldn't exactly call that a dinosaur
You're in a kind of limbo.
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Gordon Gray
Well-known member
Adam,
You are right. I'm getting old.
I guess I need to be convinced that if I want to hear "x" CD and it's easier to find, load, and press play versus accessing some type of screen and pushing / clicking, with the same degree of confidence of the end result.
Dave and Steve. I love ya bros. Been too long to hang out and have some beers.
Best,
Gordon
You are right. I'm getting old.
I guess I need to be convinced that if I want to hear "x" CD and it's easier to find, load, and press play versus accessing some type of screen and pushing / clicking, with the same degree of confidence of the end result.
Dave and Steve. I love ya bros. Been too long to hang out and have some beers.
Best,
Gordon
MiTT
Super User
RMAF is coming up in a little over a month Gordon. We could all down a pint or two then. You could all come over to my place and listen to my computer based setup if you want.
no convincing me Gordon, I wholeheartedly agree ………………. I still enjoy the 'physical connection' with playing my music, whether it be digital (CD's) or my LP's. Besides my lack of knowledge and interest in computers makes me not give a 'rats ass' about all this server stuff !
your right, it has been too long ………… RMAF 2009 I believe ……….. if you're ever out East in the Philly area, make some noise !
slowGEEZR
Well-known member
Same goes for me, still love vinyl, but love the ease of touching an iPad to listen to any of thousands of songs. If ever in my area, come on over. I've always got plenty of scotch and beer!
slowGEEZR
Well-known member
Tim, I'll be at RMAF again this year. Bringing the missus and another couple, so will be spending the evenings with them. Hope to see you at the show, I've still got your phone #. We can always have a beer in the hotel lobby!
amey01
Well-known member
And me three - if ever you find yourself in Queensland you're welcome at my place for some beer (or good wine) and high-res digital served up from a big disk array.
You don't really need much more of an interest in computers than it takes to surf "MLO". That's like saying "my lack of interest in diamonds makes me not give a rat's about vinyl".
Joey_V
Well-known member
I'll be the dinasour and be damned proud of it.
I love my Cary and when it is time to replace, it will either be a unit made by Playback Designs or the DCS Puccini with clock, both of which cost alot more (retail) than $6,500.
I am also going with a dedicated cdp just like the Cary. I'll be a Dino like you. The Cary does have digital inputs so it can easily be the dac to a server. Same thing I did with the squeezebox years ago.
Why not have the best of both worlds?
I believe there is an absolute need for a standalone CD player, if only for the times when someone brings over one of theirs to play.
I'm only just now getting a music server going. I got a NAS drive and setting up with itunes so my Apple devices are happy. But I can also access the same library with the Oppo. I just started all this yesterday and with only a dozen or so CDs loaded, it's really very nice to have!
sb6
Well-known member
Agree with Gordon, saying $6500 is too much for a CD payer is like saying, "$10K is too much to spend on a diamond ring, or $100K is too much to spend on a performance car or ...."
Totally depends on your perspective and budget.
I believe someone asked about a music server vs CD on Esoteric? I had the P-05 SACD/CD transport and matching D-05 DAC. My Media server is an HP commercial notebook w/Win2012 server quite well optimized + the Berkeley alpha USB/SPDIF converter. I can tell you the transport handily beat the media server/converter. So while I love the convenience of my Media PC, for maximum audio fidelity, the transport wins hands down. SACD is even better.
And when we have get togethers, I can accomodate CDs, SACDs, USB thumbdrives - everything but large vinyl discs. For those, we go to Steve's house!
Totally depends on your perspective and budget.
I believe someone asked about a music server vs CD on Esoteric? I had the P-05 SACD/CD transport and matching D-05 DAC. My Media server is an HP commercial notebook w/Win2012 server quite well optimized + the Berkeley alpha USB/SPDIF converter. I can tell you the transport handily beat the media server/converter. So while I love the convenience of my Media PC, for maximum audio fidelity, the transport wins hands down. SACD is even better.
And when we have get togethers, I can accomodate CDs, SACDs, USB thumbdrives - everything but large vinyl discs. For those, we go to Steve's house!
amey01
Well-known member
I'm not sure how. You can't change the data on the computer.
Adam you can have a read through http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...zer-windows-2012-server-or-windows-8-a-17897/
amey01
Well-known member
I'm not convinced. I generally have an open mind, but I can't find any information about what it actually does to make music sound better. What does it actually do?
The data is transferred from the computer to another device (in most cases, an audiophile device) to be clocked and converted.
Ensuring the said data transfer is bit-perfect is the most you (or any software - no matter how much you pay) can do.
Comptuers do that by default. Petabytes of data swirl around the internet every second.
Granted, there are many definitions of "computer audio" - network or local storage, different operating systems, wi-fi networks, USB to DAC, drive connections, etc. All have their potential disadvantages, and there are many places where you can really make a music server sound bad - for example if you were to be using digital volume control with bit truncation in your player application. But get the basics right (and you can do that with any operating system) then there is nothing further any fancy software can do.
So again I ask - what is it doing?
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sb6
Well-known member
I have not tried the audiophile optimizer, but I know others claim it yields good results. Having been in IT in my previous life, I optimized it myself (via registry, IRQ prioritization, eliminate page file, etc etc..). One of the main goals of "optimizing" a media PC is to reduce latency and lower CPU activity.
As for the notion that "bits are bits' and nothing can make a difference, I have done A-B tests with different media PCs and they all sound different IMO, sometimes minor delta, sometimes major.
In my experience:
- Changing from Windows Vista to Windows Server 2012 - significant improvement
- Comparing stock Win2012 server 64 bit vs optimized Win server 2k12 - modest improvement
- Compare SATA cable for HDD with music - little to no change
- Change Wireworld USB cable to Audioquest diamond - moderate improvement
- Compare stock PC to Shunyata Venom - minimal difference
- Compare SSD to HDD containing music - little to no difference
As for the notion that "bits are bits' and nothing can make a difference, I have done A-B tests with different media PCs and they all sound different IMO, sometimes minor delta, sometimes major.
In my experience:
- Changing from Windows Vista to Windows Server 2012 - significant improvement
- Comparing stock Win2012 server 64 bit vs optimized Win server 2k12 - modest improvement
- Compare SATA cable for HDD with music - little to no change
- Change Wireworld USB cable to Audioquest diamond - moderate improvement
- Compare stock PC to Shunyata Venom - minimal difference
- Compare SSD to HDD containing music - little to no difference
Gordon Gray
Well-known member
I read the link provided by Bonzo.
Seems like there's the potential that server based music can still be improved from a sonic perspective.
Is this true?
What does the current Windows software (server 2012) do that previous version (Vista) did not?
What does the "audiophile optimizer" do? Latency and lower CPU activity means nothing to me.
I read this stuff and it reinforces why I have not dipped my toes into this technology.
Seems like there's the potential that server based music can still be improved from a sonic perspective.
Is this true?
What does the current Windows software (server 2012) do that previous version (Vista) did not?
What does the "audiophile optimizer" do? Latency and lower CPU activity means nothing to me.
I read this stuff and it reinforces why I have not dipped my toes into this technology.
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Gordon, if you want a reasonably objective, easy to understand overview, I'd recommend The Well Tempered Computer. It's really not as difficult as it may seem to get perfect playback, and the convenience is out of this world.
sb6
Well-known member
Server based music can be as good as the best, as long as it is not a computer acting as a media player. computers are designed to move data and crunch numbers and are not designed to provide low noise and dedicate their resources exclusively to music.
Win12kserver vs Win Vista- there are lots of differences but the biggest with regard to audio is - there is much less overhead in Win12server. You don't have all the overhead to support all the typical user interface stuff so the machine is ready to respond (lower latency) and less activity (less noise). Audiophile optimizer and Fidelizer for Win8 take shutting down unnecessary things to another level.
I do agree that it's not nearly as daunting as it may seem and you can get very good audio quality from your basic PC with a decent music app like JRiver or Foobar. And there's nothing like sitting back after a hard day's work, thumbing through thousands of songs and not having to get up to change the song!
amey01
Well-known member
1. Why do you need to do this?
2. What impact does reduced latency or CPU activity have on the bits coming out the computer?
3. What impact does reduced latency or CPU activity have on the sound of the music?
If we were using a OS controlled computer sound-card as our analogue source, I might understand. But what audiophile does that?
As for the differences you've noted - there is no possible way Windows Vista could sound worse than Server 2012 on the same hardware unless it was incorrectly configured. Are corporate databases more accurate when they run on Server 2012 or any other operating system?
If not, how then, is data that just so happens happens to represent a musical waveform any different?
There's a simple way to test it. Put the same FLAC file on Windows Vista and Server 2012 (and any other box you happen to have lying around).
Let's make the test even more valid. Buggerise the Vista box as much as you can. Fill it with extraneous software. Rip half the RAM out. Ramp the CPU up to 99% and push the load average past 1. Use cheap USB cables. Use mega-expensive ones on the Server 2012 box.
Now, pull the aforesaid FLAC file from both computers over your network (just like your music server / streamer / wireless DAC does) and checksum them.
Case closed.
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