Yet Another thread regarding Integrated amplifier for Ethos or Theos (Luxman/MA)

This is yet another "what amp should I have." I see that few, if any, has written about Luxman amps on this forum. As they "are known to be good" at Quad ESL I wonder if there's a reason why they are not covered in this forum. I am considering L-505ux.

I also asked my dealer about the MA5200 for Ethos and Theos, but they believe that the amplifier can not drive ML, probably because Mcintosh indicated that the amplifier can not drive 4 ohm speakers. My budget does not allow the high end class for MAs.

Since you are in the EU, also look at NAD integrateds, the new 390DD is a great piece, but might not have the current flow for older ESLs, but the Ethos/Theos are easier to drive.

If you can afford a Luxman amplifier, go for it. I personally love the look and sound of them.

You may want to look into the used market for brands such as Bryston, Adcom or Parasound. They are very capable, 4-ohm friendly amps.

yes the 5200 does look a bit feeble . there are so many reasonably priced integrated available s/h
I prefer pre power as you can get so much flexibility .

this is a beauty

http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/plinius-hiato-integrated-amplifier---pre-owned-3242-p.asp

hifinutt said:

yes the 5200 does look a bit feeble . there are so many reasonably priced integrated available s/h
I prefer pre power as you can get so much flexibility .

this is a beauty

http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/plinius-hiato-integrated-amplifier---pre-owned-3242-p.asp

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What do you think about a int. amp like MA7900 with buildt in DAC? I can purchase a demo used one. I have yet to hear it, but I suspect it will control the ESL well.

I am considering a new Luxman 505ux as well, the sound is lovely - and the retailer keep insist it is a much better amp than the MA7900 ( for ESL and high end gear) regardless the price gap.

Check out the Consonance Calaf mkII. I was wary at first as it was unknown and not of of the usual suspects. It replaced wyred 4 sound 1kw mono blocks. It just destroyed them. Also have had the plinius 9100 in my system and a top of the line Nad int. and they did not even feature in comparison.

There are a few reviews on it on web, the best being done by hi-Fi news uk. They bench test the amp at 280watts peak into 8ohm doubling effectively again into 545watts odd and further down to 1040watt into 2 ohm , and price is just ridicules for what you get.

I use this to drive summits.

Redux said:

What do you think about a int. amp like MA7900 with buildt in DAC? I can purchase a demo used one. I have yet to hear it, but I suspect it will control the ESL well.

I am considering a new Luxman 505ux as well, the sound is lovely - and the retailer keep insist it is a much better amp than the MA7900 ( for ESL and high end gear) regardless the price gap.

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I would go for MA7900 -- tried and tested brand. Did listened to both, but for me MA7900 is the way to go with my Ethos. However, you should have listen both and decide which is better for your home environment.

Cheers

johnny saleh said:

I would go for MA7900 -- tried and tested brand. Did listened to both, but for me MA7900 is the way to go with my Ethos. However, you should have listen both and decide which is better for your home environment.

Cheers

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The dealer is right. McIntosh amps don't have good synergy with speakers that go below 4 ohms and all the current crop of Martin Logans go below one ohm at higher frequencies. The highs therefore get rolled off and the speakers sound much duller than normal. You need a good 200 watt+ (at 4 ohms) direct coupled solid state amp to make them really sing. With a good amp they are so transparent that you may not like most of your CDs unless you deploy tubes in the front end. Look for a good hybrid integrated if separates are not possible.

A quick google search brings up the bargain Rogue Audio Sphinx Tube Hybrid Integrated Amplifier. There are others. I've used an 80 watt Unison Research integrated on my Summits, while unloading my MC402, with great success. Bass was slightly lacking compared to the big amp but the combination was extremely musical and engaging.

I use msb amps , they have superb synergy with martin logan

gmartan said:

The dealer is right. McIntosh amps don't have good synergy with speakers that go below 4 ohms and all the current crop of Martin Logans go below one ohm at higher frequencies. The highs therefore get rolled off and the speakers sound much duller than normal. You need a good 200 watt+ (at 4 ohms) direct coupled solid state amp to make them really sing. With a good amp they are so transparent that you may not like most of your CDs unless you deploy tubes in the front end. Look for a good hybrid integrated if separates are not possible.

A quick google search brings up the bargain Rogue Audio Sphinx Tube Hybrid Integrated Amplifier. There are others. I've used an 80 watt Unison Research integrated on my Summits, while unloading my MC402, with great success. Bass was slightly lacking compared to the big amp but the combination was extremely musical and engaging.

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You write that McIntosh amps don't have good synergy with speakers that go below 4 ohms. Furthermore, you write that ML need a good 200 watt+ (at 4 ohms) direct coupled solid state amp to make them really sing. So, would you say that an amp like MA-8000 or MA-7900, which do have 200+ W at 4ohms also are not the best synergy (rolled of tops).

OK, here’s a controversial suggestion.

Try a Devialet.

I know in his Stereophile review John Atkinson said that the D-Premier wouldn’t cope with the very low HF impedance of MLs. Some have questioned his conclusions, and in any case the new Devialet models have an upgraded power supply capable of 3000W peaks.

But the main thing is this: the Devialets have very low (class-leading) output impedance, which makes them eminently suited to dealing with difficult speaker loads. Also their HF performance is remarkably clean. It’s worth having a look at the measured performance of these amps. It’s truly astonishing.

I run my ML Montis with a Devialet 200. Being fairly new to ML, I don’t have many points of comparison: I've only heard MLs with a couple of Krell and AR amps (sorry, I don’t have the model details).

The other thing about Devialet is that they’re surprisingly good value. If you run a purely digital system, all you need is a Mac or PC. I’ve also used the Devialet’s phono stage with a couple of TTs: SME 20 and Michell Orbe SE. Once you’ve got the cartridge configuration right in the Devialet’s online configurator, the phono stage is extraordinary.

OK, advertorial over …

Matt

^^^ Thanks for the info on the Devialet, since they are sort of a PowerDAC design, I've been watching them, but you are one of the first here to report how they work with MLs.

They are even profiling some ML models, go here to vote for your model if you have not yet: http://en.devialet.com/technology/devialet-sam-en/

The Montis is almost there, 92 votes as of now, so any Montis owners, go here: http://voteforsam.devialet.com/?s=Montis&cat=0&vfs-filter=popular

Redux said:

You write that McIntosh amps don't have good synergy with speakers that go below 4 ohms. Furthermore, you write that ML need a good 200 watt+ (at 4 ohms) direct coupled solid state amp to make them really sing. So, would you say that an amp like MA-8000 or MA-7900, which do have 200+ W at 4ohms also are not the best synergy (rolled of tops).

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This is a very interesting statement! It sounds valid and logic. Then again, when benchmarking MA7900 with other high end SS amp with direct coupling, I didn't listen that big differences. Then again - I have heard that the new mcs products have more resolution than the older stuff. What I can say is that the Luxman was more "airy" and had a wider soundstage for live classic recordings.

Anyway, here are some feedback from mcintosh regarding your statement:

"McIntosh amps with Auto former output ( which are not direct coupled) like the MA7900 are the #1 go to choice for speakers with wide impedance swings or low average impedance, because of the provided connections for 2, 4 and 8 ohms."

gmartan said:

The dealer is right. McIntosh amps don't have good synergy with speakers that go below 4 ohms and all the current crop of Martin Logans go below one ohm at higher frequencies. The highs therefore get rolled off and the speakers sound much duller than normal. You need a good 200 watt+ (at 4 ohms) direct coupled solid state amp to make them really sing. With a good amp they are so transparent that you may not like most of your CDs unless you deploy tubes in the front end. Look for a good hybrid integrated if separates are not possible.

A quick google search brings up the bargain Rogue Audio Sphinx Tube Hybrid Integrated Amplifier. There are others. I've used an 80 watt Unison Research integrated on my Summits, while unloading my MC402, with great success. Bass was slightly lacking compared to the big amp but the combination was extremely musical and engaging.

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Then why do I often see ML themselves using McIntosh gear to demo their speakers? I think the luxman is not powerful enough, and will roll of the tops just like my Linn Klout did. If brand is of concern then, plinius, mc Intosh, etc make good integrated amps, I did mention before the integrated I use which I think is just as good if not better than some of the big name guys. And it goes ways down to under an ohm and doubles the wattage into each load as a good amp should...

JonFo said:

^^^ Thanks for the info on the Devialet, since they are sort of a PowerDAC design, I've been watching them, but you are one of the first here to report how they work with MLs.

They are even profiling some ML models, go here to vote for your model if you have not yet: http://en.devialet.com/technology/devialet-sam-en/

The Montis is almost there, 92 votes as of now, so any Montis owners, go here: http://voteforsam.devialet.com/?s=Montis&cat=0&vfs-filter=popular

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Hi Jon, Matt and I have this disagreement on the Devialet. This is the only amp I would not recommend without proper comparison. That said, Matt owns one in his system and has heard it much more than I have. I found in comparison to AR, Krell, and Levinson, both separates, and AR and Krell integrated, it lacked weight, bass, and soundstage by a high margin. I demoed it thrice as I wanted to like it so that I could avoid a rack and cable mess in the living room

I've heard systems with Devialets in a few times now. I'm not keen overall either.