Panel horizontal tension

InterMechanico · May 23, 2014

I'd bet tomorrows coffee that Mylar was chosen specifically for its' tensile strength. If you want to know what the surface tension is, we just need to establish the film thickness, and then its' tensile strength. Any material is physically limited by its' yield point, and the balance between SQ and efficiency is Mylar, with its inherent tensile strength.

WOOT WOOT!!!

InterMechanico · May 23, 2014

Here are the physical properties of Dupont Mylar film:

http://usa.dupontteijinfilms.com/informationcenter/downloads/Physical_And_Thermal_Properties.pdf

It lists its' maximum elongation at 116%, but given the drastically reduced tensile strength at 5%, I would bet that the tension applied to our panels is no more than that (5%) ( The actual Kg/Force will vary with temperature, but what is achieved is the amount of stretch, not the force required to do it)

repman · May 23, 2014

This conversation reminds me of the time I was sitting with my mother and we were listening to her table radio in her home , I casually asked her " You have no idea how the music comes thru that radio do you Mom ? " Her answer was priceless " No I don't I just like it "

That's how I feel now , I have no idea what you guys are talking about but I love the sound that comes out of the panel !!!!

Have a nice long weekend boys !!!

bonzo · May 23, 2014

repman said:
This conversation reminds me of the time I was sitting with my mother and we were listening to her table radio in her home , I casually asked her " You have no idea how the music comes thru that radio do you Mom ? " Her answer was priceless " No I don't I just like it "

That's how I feel now , I have no idea what you guys are talking about but I love the sound that comes out of the panel !!!!

Have a nice long weekend boys !!!

It's ok, some of them don't either

bonzo · May 23, 2014

Gordon Gray said:
Civil discourse was well displayed by comments you made in the "Shatki stone" thread, which resulted in the thread being closed. LOL indeed.

PS: Lest anyone forget, here's beanbag's last post on that thread prior to its closure.

I have a response to this, but it would take a long time and feelings would get hurt along the way. So it will have to come out in little bits at a time, at opportune moments. LOL

You mean the shun mook thread. I had no idea it was closed, I thought it just went into a natural pause.

Damn, this is the second time. On the uk forum it went on for 25 pages before the mod deleted it, after which someone started another thread called it's disappeared

InterMechanico · May 23, 2014

Hopefully there is no guilt by association here?

bonzo · May 23, 2014

There were three of us on that thread who had heard them and said it worked, and then the others just fought between themselves until the mod deleted the thread.

InterMechanico · May 23, 2014

bonzo said:
There were three of us on that thread who had heard them and said it worked, and then the others just fought between themselves until the mod deleted the thread.

Have some satisfaction in the fact that it has always been a rough go for pioneers of any product. You are a Pioneer, Mr. Bonzo.

InterMechanico · May 23, 2014

bonzo said:
There were three of us on that thread who had heard them and said it worked, and then the others just fought between themselves until the mod deleted the thread.

You three (Bernard, Roberto, and Yourself) have convinced me to try them out. Ken and Jonathan have convinced me to try some form of DSP; Bernard helped as well.

Gordon Gray · May 23, 2014

repman said:
I have no idea what you guys are talking about but I love the sound that comes out of the panel !!!!

Exactly. Why discuss the technical weeds? Music and connectivity thereof is all that matters unless, of course, you want to play "Data" on Star Trek.

Gordon Gray · May 23, 2014

bonzo said:
You mean the shun mook thread. I had no idea it was closed, I thought it just went into a natural pause.

Yes bonzo, I was wrong about the thread title. And no bonzo, it was not a natural pause but caused by a certain person who seems to be obsessed with his superior intelligence and wanting to prove to all of us "unenlightened" folks as to why we are wrong.

GG

repman · May 23, 2014

Gordon Gray said:
Exactly. Why discuss the technical weeds? Music and connectivity thereof is all that matters unless, of course, you want to play "Data" on Star Trek.

I guess I'm blissfully ignorant on this one Gordon .

InterMechanico · May 23, 2014

repman said:
I guess I'm blissfully ignorant on this one Gordon .

This subject doesn't interest me at all. I've never pondered the tension in my panels, and unless I build one or rebuild my own, I never will again. Nevertheless, a question begs for an answer, in my own head, if nowhere else.

beanbag · May 23, 2014

InterMechanico said:
This subject doesn't interest me at all. I've never pondered the tension in my panels, and unless I build one or rebuild my own, I never will again. Nevertheless, a question begs for an answer, in my own head, if nowhere else.

It's ok to not care, but I invite you to try one thing: Take an insulated stick (like the extension nozzle of a duster can) and lightly tap at your diaphragm in the middle. You will see just how little tension you have.

Gordon Gray · May 23, 2014

That's very profound and sonically meaningful / applicable as to why people listen to music.

beanbag · May 24, 2014

InterMechanico said:
[stuff]

In short, you want enough tension so that the resonant freq is much below the crossover point. There is nothing really wrong with higher tension since you could just increase the voltage to get a more powerful drive. People who build their own panels try to get as much tension as they can. But DIY panels are also flat. Curved panels have a different set of rules for tension.

What many people don't get is that you can lean on the tension rig all you want, but the final horizontal tension in the panel is going to be limited by various factors. My long post in this thread shows what limits the horizontal tension to a very low level. Why some people get all huffy when I apply Newton's Laws to their beloved speaker... ehh, I don't care to comment.

amey01 · May 24, 2014

I've stayed out of this because I know nothing of tension (and would like to learn, and would love to hear ML's comment on this thread), but this statement

beanbag said:
you could just increase the voltage to get a more powerful drive.

is patently false. You can't "just increase voltage" as you get to a point where you get arcing.

Bevensee · May 24, 2014

beanbag said:
In short, you want enough tension so that the resonant freq is much below the crossover point. There is nothing really wrong with higher tension since you could just increase the voltage to get a more powerful drive. People who build their own panels try to get as much tension as they can. But DIY panels are also flat. Curved panels have a different set of rules for tension.

What many people don't get is that you can lean on the tension rig all you want, but the final horizontal tension in the panel is going to be limited by various factors. My long post in this thread shows what limits the horizontal tension to a very low level. Why some people get all huffy when I apply Newton's Laws to their beloved speaker... ehh, I don't care to comment.

Wouldn't hiher tension increase the resonance freq, so that ultimately it will be above XO point?

beanbag · May 24, 2014

amey01 said:
I've stayed out of this because I know nothing of tension (and would like to learn, and would love to hear ML's comment on this thread), but this statement

is patently false. You can't "just increase voltage" as you get to a point where you get arcing.

Then don't go that high

Bevensee said:
Wouldn't hiher tension increase the resonance freq, so that ultimately it will be above XO point?

Then don't go that high

Edit: Hmm, this give me a new idea. Maybe the spar spacing sets an upper limit on the vertical tension too.

MPS · May 24, 2014

beanbag said:
In short, you want enough tension so that the resonant freq is much below the crossover point. There is nothing really wrong with higher tension since you could just increase the voltage to get a more powerful drive. People who build their own panels try to get as much tension as they can. But DIY panels are also flat. Curved panels have a different set of rules for tension.

What many people don't get is that you can lean on the tension rig all you want, but the final horizontal tension in the panel is going to be limited by various factors. My long post in this thread shows what limits the horizontal tension to a very low level. Why some people get all huffy when I apply Newton's Laws to their beloved speaker... ehh, I don't care to comment.

a) I don't quite get it what higher tension has got to do with drive voltage. Care to explain? (Are you referring to sensitivity? Then please explain relation between tension, voltage and sensitivity)
b) You obviously want to learn about ESL, instead of wild and erroneous speculation, why don't you just ask about things you don't understand? (There are plenty of people who build their own ESL and many articles available - giving made up explanations might give false information to persons inexperienced with ESL or less knowledgeable technically)

Panel horizontal tension

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