Neolith debuts at Munich High End

$50K according to this:

http://wizard-highend.blogspot.no/2014/05/martin-logan-neolith.html

sleepysurf said:

A stat panels 'Figure 8' dipole dispersion indeed limits side wall and ceiling/floor reflections. However there will always be low frequency room interactions from the woofer(s).

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Hey, Alan. Technically speaking, the lesser floor/ceiling interaction is due to the fact that the ML's are line sources. Dipole radiation mitigates only side wall interaction, as you've said. Linkwitz, in fact, recommends aiming the side of his dipole speaker right at the 1st reflection point, thus virtually eliminating the (typically) highest-gain reflections.

sleepysurf said:

A stat panels 'Figure 8' dipole dispersion indeed limits side wall and ceiling/floor reflections. However there will always be low frequency room interactions from the woofer(s).

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A Sanders flat panel will incur less side wall reflection the a curvilinear panel. Or a Quad, or, ahem, an Apogee or Maggie.

Sanders thought up curvilinear then rejected it.

longhorn said:

and the extra bracing of the panel will surely make for a purer sound.

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But wait! I though no bracing / "airframe" was essential to stop interference with the rear wave? Were we duped ML?

Here are some more pics from yesterday, they are about 200kgs each, due for release in Q4 this year, passive 12inch woofer front firing and passive 15 inch woofer back firing, 4 dB increase/ decrease pins each way, panel across is about 24 inches and full height I would estimate 70-80 inches, no pricing as yet. Having previously owned SL3s , Quests and CLXs I felt these sound really right, seamless integration of panel and air moving bass.:

Love the gloss finish.

Rich said:

Ha. Ha. Love it! :ROFL:

And let's not forget that the Sanders Sound Model 10 has a panel only seven inches narrower and it includes an external programmable crossover and an acclaimed Magtech amp for the bass, for a price less than the Summit X! Talk about value for your money.

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Hi Rich, I figured you'd like that

The Sanders line is very good value, their recently announced 10d increases that even more.

Some pics from Leo, who covers these shows like no other (just set your Browser to translate the Japanese) are mid-way down this page of Neolith pics from Leo

Interesting. You think those panels behind the speakers are absorptive? That would be my guess, seeing as they have them along the side walls as well.

Well I had a good listen. I also took umpteen pictures. The way the lighting was the videos will be poor, though I might try again tomoz.

The look is totally nailed. They are finished in a grey car paint I very nearly did my Apogees in. Just lovely and that huge panel looks great in clearspar.

Big panels have always been where it is at IMHO even if smaller ones sell better.

On to the sound. I recognise a panel that needs more breaking in when I hear one. I also recognise SS electronics when I hear them on an ESL panel.

Fortunately, I can hear through this due to years of experience. In short, run in and driven with something other than Moon electronics, I know they'll be great. Well, a damn sight more to my taste anyway.

JonFo said:

Some pics from Leo, who covers these shows like no other (just set your Browser to translate the Japanese) are mid-way down this page of Neolith pics from Leo

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who's the guy with the poor fitting sport coat and the 'gray mop' on his head ??

Room integration seemed good and from what I heard it is just possible some RC had been applied.

The actual sound was crisp and dry. Too crisp and too dry IMHO but again with more hours and more sympathetic electronics, I reckon they'll be fine.

Was I as impressed as I was when I first heard the CLX? No.

Why? Driving electronics I think. I'd gamble and buy these in preference to the CLX chiefly because bass integration sounded fine and they will be able to hit high SPLs with very decent bass. Together with better dynamics than the CLX can manage.

They also look a damn site better.That CLX bass, what there is of it, is a real pleasure though. Neolith doesn't go there.

There's a rear firing ported woofer BTW and it was definitely working LOL.

So all in all I liked it. The sweet spot wasn't anywhere near as narrow as a Summit. Big panels helping there I reckon. Also, the speaker was angled pretty much vertically if not 100% vertically.

Would I buy a pair? 50K Euros is the price, and they're too big for my room. So no I am afraid. But people will.

Peter Soderburg was there, nearly said I was Rich for kicks

User211 said:

Peter Soderburg was there, nearly said I was Rich for kicks

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Yeah, I imagine he would have kicked you right out of the room.

I think ML has probably hit a home run on this speaker, except for the price. That's a shame. If they charged half as much, they would have probably still made a good profit but sold ten times as many as they're going to sell. Just speculation on my part, of course.

Too bad they weren't better broken in and driven by more appropriate electronics. They ought to show these with Pass Labs amps or the big Mcintoshes. Or, if they really wanted to show them off, pair them with some powerful tube amps on the panels and SS on the woofers. Every jaw in the room would be dropping.

Rich said:

Interesting. You think those panels behind the speakers are absorptive? That would be my guess, seeing as they have them along the side walls as well.

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Oh, definitely absorptive, those huge panels will make a room that size ring like crazy without some absorption. I know

You know they've been listening to us go on and on about how rear wave absorption really helps, so glad to see them using it in shows.

Now, if they really want to show off this Neolith and wow the crowd, they need to do what I did and build some sidewall acoustic treatments that blend in the whole panel theme, like this:



That would really be

I think you're right Jon. Acid tabs for free on the way in, too. At least a couple of hundred mics a tab:ROFL:

This is a short report from my yesterdays vitsit at the munich show. As I was very curious about ML new Neolith, we walked straight to their demo room. In the late afternoon I had another audition there. In total I spent about an hour to come to a first conclusion. But thats only my view...

Folks, this thing is like a steamroller. In any respect. Huge, massive, loud. But it has none of the characteristics I love so much about the logans. I've alwas had ML speakters since 1987 and actually own a Summit. So, I think I know what I'm talking about.

All speakers I had from ML had an incredible ability to breathe. Very "airy", accurate and smooth. The neolith is just massive. Ok, there is a huge soundstage, but: sound doesn't release from the panel. Woofers are slow and boomy. Heavy bass ideed, but my summits can do much better.

ML, if this is the direction you will go for the future, leave it! If this was just a showcase that you are able to build an ESL that can go really loud, mission completed. If you think this monster is able to reproduce music and transport emotions, target failed.

I also had a conversation with Peter Soderberg. I stated, that its appreciated if ML spend an ear at his customer base. Obviously many people did request a Monolith rebuild. Ok they have it now. But I think, a lot more people may be longing for a simple, straigtforward fullrange speaker. He told, that ML will never build something as the CLS again. They are rather thinking about a Junior CLX. Sorry lads, I will not be interested in this. Thats not what I and many others may want.

Shrinking a double panel CLX is just for price cosmetics and I dont think that you can make it below 20.000. The price points for other high end models already are out of reach for most of us. Remember a summit X in europe is about 19.000 EUR !!

So, what to do? Changing to another brand? Have I to think about to get some funds and start building my own CLS like thing? Should I wait another year what to come next from ML?

Sorry about complaining. But I'm very disappointed.

Just interested to know did you manage to get a seating while listening?
I remember one Summit demo which I commented being bit heavy on bass and my two friends disagreed mentioning lack of bass, the difference was one seating row.

MPS said:

Just interested to know did you manage to get a seating while listening?
I remember one Summit demo which I commented being bit heavy on bass and my two friends disagreed mentioning lack of bass, the difference was one seating row.

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I must admit, that my impressions were slightly different depending on listening position. I've managed to move from the last rows to the first row, center seat. There, it was much better imaging, because this particular chair obviously hit the sweet spot pretty well. But even there, bass repsonse was not good. I also think, the've played much too loud. The ran at exraordinary levels. If I would force my speakers that way, imaging collapses totally. Ok, this panel may tolerate some db's more, but overall it sounded somewhat stressed.