Sa-cd.net

Hi all.
Can someone comment on the accuracy of the ratings of sacds on sa-cd.net? Particularly on the sonics side. I have started an interest in classical and there are of course many recordings of the great composers.

Thanks Tim

There are too many variables for them to be even remotely useful (equipment, rooms, preferences, etc.). I suppose you could buy one that receives 5 stars and see if you agree. If so, then that reviewer is probably reliable. I've read a fair amount of hyperbole, so sometimes it's hard to take them seriously, such as "I ran screaming from the room."

Tim,

I have numerous "classical" Pentatone and Channel Classics SACD's.They are all superb.

Also recommend the "Living Stereo" releases.

Suggest you check the website for music available from these companies.

I can also provide some recommended discs from these labels and others if you wish.

Gordon

Gordon Gray said:

Tim,

I have numerous "classical" Pentatone and Channel Classics SACD's.They are all superb.

Also recommend the "Living Stereo" releases.

Suggest you check the website for music available from these companies.

I can also provide some recommended discs from these labels and others if you wish.

Gordon

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That....would be AWESOME Gordon!! Any opinion on deutsche gramophon ?

may as well subscribe to Naxos Music Library and listen to all the music you want.

Dear Mr. Bean,

I'm sorry but I don't understand the relevance of your post and the question posed by the OP, that being the accuracy of the SACD "sonic" ratings on sa-cd.net.

PS: I assume you do not have a SACD CDP. Correct? If yes, please elaborate including SACD's you've heard on your system. If no, why would you choose to post on this thread absent any knowledge of the question at hand?

Maybe the answer lies in your statement. NEVER MIND MY SYSTEM. READ THIS BOOK INSTEAD.

Any comments?

Gordon Gray said:

Dear Mr. Bean,

I'm sorry but I don't understand the relevance of your post and the question posed by the OP, that being the accuracy of the SACD "sonic" ratings on sa-cd.net.

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Oh, its very simple. By getting a subscription to the NML, he can listen to pretty much all the classical music he wants, including the SACDs of interest. It is better to be able to listen to the source directly to determine the sonic quality, as opposed to relying on the opinions of others, or the opinions of others' opinions. It's like those dumb youtube videos where somebody rants about something Ann Coulter said today. How lame.

Not only that, but he can also, at will, listen to multiple performances of the same work, or other works by the same artist, or other works by the same composer, or other albums from the same record company, or etc etc.

PS: I assume you do not have a SACD CDP. Correct? If yes, please elaborate including SACD's you've heard on your system. If no, why would you choose to post on this thread absent any knowledge of the question at hand?

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Since you purport to visit ComputerAudiophile, I assume you know that a SACD player is not required to play 24/96 content? All that is required is a computer and DAC. 24/96, or even 24/192 content can be downloaded from the internet, and / or bought in lossless format from sites such as hdtracks.com or linnrecords.com, or a myriad of other sites and record companies.

Maybe the answer lies in your statement. NEVER MIND MY SYSTEM. READ THIS BOOK INSTEAD.

Any comments?

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I don't see how this is relevant?

NML appears to offer musical streaming services for the "Naxos Group Of Companies" only.

To the best of my knowledge, this does not include Pentatone, Channel Classics, Audite, Living Stereo, Reference Recordings, etc.

Is that correct?

GG, can you recommend me a good sacd recording of 4 seasons and the Brandenburgs?

Some SACD recommends

Hi Tim,

Here's a few "classical" titles that I think you should consider. Composer / Title / Conductor

Pentatone

Korngold / Symphony in F sharp / Albrecht
Strauss / Till Eulenspiegel / Albrecht
Music For a Time of War / Kalmar
Bruckner / Symphony No. 3 / Janowski
Ravel, Prokofiev, Schlime / Piano Concertos / Pletnev
Stravinsky / L'Histoire Du Soldat / Jarvi

Reference Recordings

Strauss / Don Juan, etc. / Honeck
Tutti / Orchestral Sampler
Various / Exotic Dances from the Opera / Oue

Tudor

Stravinsky / Le Sacre Du Printemps (Rite of Spring) / Nott

CSO Re-Sound

Stravinsky / Symphony in Three Movements, Four etudes / Pulcinella / Boulez

Living Stereo - RCA Victor

Liszt, Enesco / Rhapsodies / Stokowski
Rimsky Korsakov, Stravinski / Scheherazade, Song of the Nightingale / Reiner
Bartok / Concerto for Orchestra, Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta / Reiner (Abstract)
Ravel / Daphnis et Chloe / Munch
Strauss / Also Sprach Zarathustra / Reiner

Esoteric Pricey but very good

Falla / Three Cornered Hat / Ansermet
Dvorak / New World Symphony No. 9 / Kertesz


All the above are dynamic, engaging, melodic (except perhaps for Bartok) full orchestral works. Will definitely give your system a workout.


One of my favorite combinations is Piano and Cello and much mellower

Channel Classics

Artists are Wispelwey and Lazic. Various composers.

Try Sonatas for Cello and Piano first. Shostakovich, Prokofiev, and Britten.

Other composers (Brahms and Beethoven) available. All sublime if you like this combination.

Any of these should provide a good "benchmark" for sonics and, IMHO, outstanding music. Most, if not all titles, should be available from Amazon.

Best and enjoy,

Gordon

Wow excellent, GG

Bonzo,

Thank you. There are many more that I have that I consider excellent.

To your above question, no recommends.

I'd consult sa-cd and "arkiv music". The latter does provide some very thorough reviews.

And to beanbag's point, Arkiv is going to start a streaming service of their catalog. This could be "the one" to be able to hear various composers, artists on many labels. For those into this medium, I'd follow this and see where it goes.

Gordon

Gordon Gray said:

NML appears to offer musical streaming services for the "Naxos Group Of Companies" only.

To the best of my knowledge, this does not include Pentatone, Channel Classics, Audite, Living Stereo, Reference Recordings, etc.

Is that correct?

Click to expand...

Go to their home page:
http://www.naxosmusiclibrary.com/home.asp
click on "free preview" (15 minutes)
click on "labels"
pentatone - yes
Channel classics - no
Audite - yes
Living stereo - yes, under RCA
Reference Recordings - yes

Thanks for the clarification.

If you know, how is the quality compared to playing a SACD?

I've read very disparate, conflicting views regarding this issue.

What bit rates does Naxos stream in beanbag? The library looks small.

Try Qobuz Hi-Fi which does lossless FLAC 44.1Hz 16 bit CD quality with a much larger library? I'm using it. Tis good.

Gordon thank you so much for taking the time on this.

I just recently got swan lake - jarvi on chandos It is a 96/24 transferred to sacd. Normally my thoughts are I would want a dsd to dsd transfer ....but- I find this recording excellent with dynamics up the wazoo. I also find the nuance to be excellent with just the rught amount of hall ambience. It feels like 5th row to me.

I will start looking up these titles you have brought up. And yes I am in for celloiano. . When it comes to this type of listening -- I always think 'what would sound best with a good cab??'

Tim,

Most of the titles I listed are more on the "high energy" side versus low key.

That's just my personal bias.

Justin, so is the streaming on these type sites equivalent, in quality, to playing an SACD on a CDP?

If not, I don't know how you can judge sound quality when comparing the two media.

Gordon

PS: Question for beanbag. The Naxos site claims "near CD quality" as the standard streaming mode and "CD quality" for an additional fee. They don't say anything about SACD quality. Can you or anyone else clarify since the main virtue of SACD is it's increased resolution due to the DSD format.

The Naxos classical library has about 100K albums available for streaming. How many classical ones does qobuz have for stream? I can't access their catalog.
Naxos uses a lossy format for streaming, (I think 128 VBR aac) but they seem to have done a pretty good job of it since I have compared their version to my own uncompressed and it was really hard to tell the difference. (It seems like compression technology has come a long way from the early 2000's when it was even easy to tell 256K mp3 vs uncompressed.) Certainly, it is good enough to tell whether a disc / album is recorded with good "sonics".

The qobuz seems to be better in that it lets you stream lossless, but it doesn't work for us on the wrong side of the Atlantic.

edit for gordon: by "sonics" I assumed the original poster meant things like miking technique, background ambience, reverb, voice placement, clarity, tonal balance, etc. so even the vbr is good enough to determine that. If you really want that last 1% (or however many percent you consider it to be) you will have to either get the physical disk or buy and download the high-res version of the file.

Naxos is free to try for 15 minutes without registration, so if you can playback a signal from a computer, and they have an album you also have, you can compare yourself.

Down into the technical weeds.

From Naxos site. Standard streaming rate is 64 kbps. Optional (added cost) 128 kbps.

Redbook CD. 44.1 / 16 bit. 1,409 kbps.

SACD DSD. 5,600 to 9,216 kbps depending on sampling rate and bit rate.

If these numbers are anywhere close (consider me technically challenged), how can the sound quality of the Naxos streaming, expressed in kbps, be anywhere close to SACD?

And please don't say the difference is inaudible.

GG

I edited my post above yours.
The naxos bitrate is a compressed bitrate, vs the redbook and sacd are uncompressed.

But yes, the Naxos version will sound barely worse. Compression technology is pretty good these days.

CD vs SACD : I think you are already familiar with that argument.