Theos vs Electromotion ESL

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docalan

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After living happily with Quad ESL 63s for over 25 yrs and enduring several costly repairs, I've decided to switch to MLs. I listen mostly to classical music- orchestral and solo piano. Also use it sparingly for home theater. My listening room is small (13 x 20 ft)so I think the Theos may be overkill. I also have a ML Dynamo 700. I'm using an Emotiva UMC1 pre-proc. and my amp is a 300 wt/channel McIntosh.Side and center ch. speakers are B&W's.Any thoughts... Will the ESLs give enough ummph for this room. The inc cost is not a deal breaker but of course a consideration.
docalan
 
Hola and welcome. The Theos is a better Electromotion in every way. The panel is bigger, and it is all hand made. Also, the woofer is made of aluminum. The serial number are consecutive, and also, are made with different finishes. But if you put one next to the other and listen to the music, you can say that both are great speakers and both have the Martin Logan legendary magic. The look of the Theos is stoning. You have be-wired possibility too. With the new series of ML, you can use low power amplifiers with no problem, starting with only 20 watts/channel. My advise is: trust your ears, and choose the one that you liked most. If you can squeeze a little bit more, the Ethos is a totally different beast and surpass by tons in quality sound both previous models. With the Ethos, you can precisely adjust the woofer level in your room. For classical music, this it is a must!. Happy listening!
 
first off your room is not small, moderate, but plenty big enough for not only the Theos but heck you could probably make the CLX's work. My room is 14'6" x 24', not that much larger and my Spires work just fine !
 
"Realistic volume" orchestra and piano are very hard to do. I don't think the Electromotion can really do it, and the Theos is kind of a "maybe". I think it's more a fault of the woofer and not the panel.
 
Personally, I agree with Roberto. The Theos is just not that big of a step up from the EM. You get a slightly wider and taller panel and a nicer woofer box and slightly lower crossover point. Frequency range is about the same. Better to save your money and upgrade to the Ethos when you are ready. Or an older Spire or Summit. Your room size is not a limiting factor, although some room treatments like bass traps in the corners would improve your sound tremendously. I have been running Summits in a room that is 14' x 19' for years and they are not overkill.
 
thanks to all for the comments and inputs. I had an opportunity to audition both ELS and Theos today in Paramus. IMO the biggest difference between them occurred when I stood up- the Els had a pronounced drop off in tone compared w/the Theos. Also more loss of high frequencies when moving to either side. I was tempted to buy the Theos since they were on sale ($500 discount for black gloss finish). But I'm going on vacation for a few weeks and decided to wait until my return. How often does ML run sales? I will try to find an Ethos for a listen.
 
The real jump in quality comes with the active woofers in my opinion. The LF control is a fantastic feature. Besides, from an economic point of view, the Ethos is not that much more expensive than the Theos, when amplifier cost is taken into consideration. The Ethos work well with lower powered amps, so for the same quality, the amp cost is reduced.
 
If I was short of $$$ and I wanted to get into Martin Logan, buying ESLs is a no brainer. If I had a little more money, I would stretch to the Theos. BUT, if I already owned a pair of ESLs, moving to the Theos is not enough of an upgrade for the financial outlay - even thought the Theos is superior in a number of ways. It is a far better decision both financially and sound quality wise to upgrade from the ESLs to a pair of Ethos or Montis speakers or perhaps a pre loved pair of Summits or Spires.
 
"Realistic volume" orchestra and piano are very hard to do. I don't think the Electromotion can really do it, and the Theos is kind of a "maybe". I think it's more a fault of the woofer and not the panel.


Based on owning four different ML speakers over some 25 years, panel size definitely matters.

And my listening bias tends toward full scale classical, piano, and jazz.

Please cite ML models that you have owned in the past that support your opinion on this issue.
 
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I believe panel size is one of the major parameters and if using same technology (ML) _the_parameter_ for ESL sound quality of which we all are so addicted :bowdown:
 
IMO the biggest difference between them occurred when I stood up- the Els had a pronounced drop off in tone compared w/the Theos. Also more loss of high frequencies when moving to either side.

In that case, aim the ESL up by more.

edit: or raise them higher off the floor.

For off-axis high frequency response, toe matters a lot.
But yes, in general the bigger panel of the Theos will splatter sound everywhere.
 
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In that case, aim the ESL up by more.

Not a good solution, as it deteriorates imaging and soundstage.

edit: or raise them higher off the floor.

Better solution.

But yes, in general the bigger panel of the Theos will splatter sound everywhere.

The bigger panel doesn't really splatter sound in more directions. All ML ELS panels have a 30 degree horizontal dispersion pattern. I think the greater radiating surface of a larger panel just allows them to play more loudly without distorting.
 
Based on owning four different ML speakers over some 25 years, panel size definitely matters.

And my listening bias tends toward full scale classical, piano, and jazz.

Please cite ML models that you have owned in the past that support your opinion on this issue.

I have owned the Scenario and Vista, both with 8" woofers like the speakers the OP is inquiring about. And I think that the woofers start to distort first at high volumes before the panels do.

It's also why I'm trying Tosh's suggestion of an active woofer to squeeze a little more power out of them.
 
After listening to both the ESL and the Theos its clear that the Theos represents a better purchase option for me. While not eliminating the Ethos I'm wondering if the woofer advantage that has been reiterated is as much a factor being that I already have a ML Dynamo 700. Also my McIntosh amp would seem quite adequate for the Theos. With that consideration, any thoughts on whether the additional $$ spent on the Ethos is cost-effective.
 
After listening to both the ESL and the Theos its clear that the Theos represents a better purchase option for me. While not eliminating the Ethos I'm wondering if the woofer advantage that has been reiterated is as much a factor being that I already have a ML Dynamo 700. Also my McIntosh amp would seem quite adequate for the Theos. With that consideration, any thoughts on whether the additional $$ spent on the Ethos is cost-effective.

The real advantage of the Ethos is that it's woofer is powered by an internal amp, so your amp focuses all its energy on the panels without being loaded down by woofer duty. This will give you higher spls without distortion. It also has a passive radiator woofer, which may help in the bass area but I don't know how much. Whether this is worth the cost difference only you could say. If you biamped the Theos with an inexpensive 200 wpc ice amp on the woofers, you would close most of the difference for less money. If you consider going this route, I highly recommend the monobloc amps from Outlaw Audio. They are inexpensive, built like tanks, and make great woofer amps in a biamp setup.
 
Hola. Rich is right when he is saying about the amount to invest in another power amplifier to drive the woofers without clipping, and this is the reason why since my first post, I did recommend it. The Ethos is an effortless music player machine. You will be driving the stat panels only. Your amplifier will not read the load of the woofers, in other words, will send power to the panels only. Consider again this option! But, it is your budget and liking!. Happy listening!
 
Despite having the same panel, the ethos has a slightly lower cross-over frequency. The panel does more work and the woofer less. Plus I think it will have more direct control of the woofer because there aren't all these cross-over components in the way. So based on these technical reasons alone, I would say that the bass of the ethos would be a "little" bit better. You should bring your big symphony music and compare the two speakers at high volume to see if it is worth the extra $$$.
 
Especially when you plan to pair them with a sub, the bass control of the Ethos will prove its worth. It will make it a lot easier to integrate sub and main-speakers. Especially for 2-channel where the main speakers get the full-range signal. That said, the Theos are magnificent speakers as well!
 
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