Sub suggestions to go with ML EMs

Seriously considering the HSU VTF-2 mk4 or the SVS SB12-NSD. Right now I have a BIC America F12 and since my upgrade to Electromotions this sub is the weak link. Bass is boomy and bloated. Looking for a sub that goes great with music and movies. Musical enough to portray accurate acoustic bass in jazz but powerful enough for massive impact during movies. Any suggestions?

Look into subs by Rythmik also

+1 on the Rythmik recommendation...
Recently there were some close-out deals on ML Depths at Audio Advisor. Not sure if you want to spend that much, but to my ear the Depth provides tight, accurate bass and is worth considering.

flimchance said:

Seriously considering the HSU VTF-2 mk4 or the SVS SB12-NSD. Right now I have a BIC America F12 and since my upgrade to Electromotions this sub is the weak link. Bass is boomy and bloated. Looking for a sub that goes great with music and movies. Musical enough to portray accurate acoustic bass in jazz but powerful enough for massive impact during movies. Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

In order to provide useful info, we need to know a few things:

• How large is your room?
• How low, in frequency, do you want to go e.g. 25Hz, 15Hz, etc?
• How loud do you want to listen?

Hsu, SVS, Rythmik and others all make terrific subs, but the answers to the above will help us to suggest the appropriate model(s).

As for boomy and bloated, that's not the sub's fault, but a function of your room dimensions, and where you and the sub are located in that room. You can move your LP and/or you can move your sub and/or you can use some form of EQ.

RUR said:

In order to provide useful info, we need to know a few things:

• How large is your room?
• How low, in frequency, do you want to go e.g. 25Hz, 15Hz, etc?
• How loud do you want to listen?

Hsu, SVS, Rythmik and others all make terrific subs, but the answers to the above will help us to suggest the appropriate model(s).

As for boomy and bloated, that's not the sub's fault, but a function of your room dimensions, and where you and the sub are located in that room. You can move your LP and/or you can move your sub and/or you can use some form of EQ.

Click to expand...

Room is 13x13, laminate floor with 5x7 area rug. Looking at the stage, the right wall opens to the kitchen (9' opening, centered on 13) and I have the sub caddy-corner to the right/front wall on the right side of the stage. It is the only place I can put it but I can face it straight forward instead of caddy-cornered but it will then be shooting just to the right of the main listening position.

I have no idea how low I want it to go but I would assume the deeper, the better. Under 25Hz I guess.

I listen pretty loudly, during movies my system sounds about the same db level as a movie theater. I also have tactile transducers attached to the underneath of the 2 sofas.

flimchance said:

Room is 13x13, laminate floor with 5x7 area rug. Looking at the stage, the right wall opens to the kitchen (9' opening, centered on 13) and I have the sub caddy-corner to the right/front wall on the right side of the stage. It is the only place I can put it but I can face it straight forward instead of caddy-cornered but it will then be shooting just to the right of the main listening position.

I have no idea how low I want it to go but I would assume the deeper, the better. Under 25Hz I guess.

I listen pretty loudly, during movies my system sounds about the same db level as a movie theater. I also have tactile transducers attached to the underneath of the 2 sofas.

Click to expand...

Well, since your room opens into the kitchen, you're room volume is undoubtedly fairly large, i.e. a bigger sub will be better. I use an SB-12NSD in an open living room and, though it's a nice sub, I can tell you it won't be enough for loud, deep bass, like movie SFX.

The good news is that, if the kitchen wall is far enough away, it may not be problematic. How far from the left wall of your listening room, through the opening at right, to the wall in the kitchen? The 13' front to back will definitely contribute to your boominess problem - are you sure you can't move your sub along the front to back axis? If not, you'll need one hell of a lot of absorption (probably not practical), a second sub, or some EQ to tame the mode. Subwoofer frequencies are omnidirectional, so turning your sub will accomplish nothing.

What's your subwoofer budget?

Given the square diensions of the room and yourlimtied positioning for the sub, your will really need the help of some EQ or room correction.

If your receiver or preamp does not have Audyssey or some other room correction, then I'd highly recommend a sub with something the like the PSB/MartinLogan models featuring PBK or Velodyne Digital Drive or Optimum lines.

Cheers,

As of tomorrow I will be running an Onkyo TX-NR818 which has Audyssey MultEq XT32. Currently I'm using a Marantz SR5004 but it only comes with MultEq.

Budget is $400-$650. I will wait to see what the XT32 does with the Bic F12 tomorrow. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. Someone on another board suggested plugging the rear port and re-running Audyssey. I will exhaust what little placement options I have before upgrading the sub, but I can't imagine a $180 sub can form a good foundation for $2,000 fronts.

flimchance said:

As of tomorrow I will be running an Onkyo TX-NR818 which has Audyssey MultEq XT32. Currently I'm using a Marantz SR5004 but it only comes with MultEq.

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Nice, I have an 818 in my secondary system, the XT-32 is very good (compared to the MultEq XT Pro on my Denon AVP), so it will do wonders, just follow the great AVS guide for measuring. The difference between a good experience with Audyssey and a bad one comes down to how well the measurement process was executed. I assure you that the 818 delivers pretty amazing results if done right. See my quad sub setup using my TX-NR818 with before/after independent measurements.

Your square aspect ratio room is an ideal candidate for this multi-sub solution. So I strongly suggest you consider that option for all the reasons (and measurements) outlined in that thread.

Also recommend closing off the port on the Bic, as that will clear up the distortion spec (at the cost of extension and power), and it should be much improved over what you have now, especially with XT32 applied.

Thanks, JonFo. You're the third person to recommend plugging the port so I think that suggestion warrants some merit. I'll also read through that AVS guide as well.

I assume I should plug the port before running XT32, right?

flimchance said:

I assume I should plug the port before running XT32, right?

Click to expand...

Yes, you should.

RUR said:

Subwoofer frequencies are omnidirectional, so turning your sub will accomplish nothing.

Click to expand...

If the sub is nearfield, then turning it does make a difference.

beanbag said:

If the sub is nearfield, then turning it does make a difference.

Click to expand...

What difference?

I measured a difference in frequency response, especially an excitation of one of the room modes.

beanbag said:

I measured a difference in frequency response, especially an excitation of one of the room modes.

Click to expand...

Difference and excitation at what frequency? What's the xover frequency?

I Noticed that Martin Logan is discontinuing the Depth i and the Descent i. I have a fairly big open space and i have the Grotto original model that works pretty good for the space. How ever i am looking to do a sub upgrade and i hear some people like the depth i better than the descent i. So i can get anyone of these subs there is only a price difference of $500 any recommendations ?

martin mike said:

I Noticed that Martin Logan is discontinuing the Depth i and the Descent i. I have a fairly big open space and i have the Grotto original model that works pretty good for the space. How ever i am looking to do a sub upgrade and i hear some people like the depth i better than the descent i. So i can get anyone of these subs there is only a price difference of $500 any recommendations ?

Click to expand...

Maybe you should start a new thread? Probably get more responses.

OK thanks.

Just to give an update, looks like I'm gonna go with Power Sound Audio's XS15. I had a nice email exchange with Tom Vodhanel and that pretty much sealed the deal. It was previously a toss-up between that, the HSU VTF-2MK4, and the SVS SB-2000.