Do power cords matter?

Mark,

I'm not going to "debate" this issue because there is no resolution to it but with all due respect, I have heard positive impacts from AC power cords. Most recent experience was purchasing and installing a Shunyata Research (SR) Ananconda from my SR PS8 to the wall outlet. Shunyata does have some objective info on their website regarding the SR Venom AC cords if you want to investigate.

In the end, it's the perennial Subjective versus Objective discussion.

Best,

Gordon

PS: GW, I'm with you a 100% and I really don't care if I get flogged and ridiculed. For those who espouse wire is wire, may I suggest that they try some other cords and let their ears decide. The best answer I can give is "it depends" and is the cost a good return on investment. Each person needs to decide. I'll leave it at that.

Gordon,

I know you don't believe in blind tests, but I would be curious if you could hear any difference in an A/B test.

That said, it's only money and if you are happy that is all that matters

BTW I'm careful about using the correctly sized wire and connectors for my RC Helis and I'm pretty particular about the components I put on this heli. Many of the components are relatively expensive. Some are justifiably so, others are just considered the best and I use them because I want to. So I spend my money where I want to for reasons that matter and others that just put a grin on my face

This is my latest speed flying rig. The batteries are about $320 a pair and only good for about 20-30 flights before they wear out because they are being put under extreme duress in this application. Normally they would be good for 200-300 flights.

I have a second motor and 4 pinions to work through while I improve my skills. I'll be installing the retracts for improved aerodynamics when I put the larger motor in. Everyone has something that floats their boat. Speed flying is a rush!

IMHO, the crazy proliferation of the cable/power cord industry is a reflection of the huge profit margin in this niche. Even if only 25% of potential buyers believe they make a difference, it's apparently lucrative enough to throw major marketing $$ into. I *do* believe that speaker cables and interconnects can make a small difference, but not so for power cords.

If I had the time and $$, I'd start manufacturing high-end cables and selling them under the "Placebo-Fi" brand.

amey01 said:

Well......aahhhhh.......exactly.

And even if it does do something......spending that money on a better amplifier / better source / better speaker / room treatment / FFS, a bottle of wine..........will do far more for the true sound you hear anyway.

Really, I just don't get it.

Yeah, but expensive power cables look nice though........they do......yeah.

But at least it is more believable than USB cables making a difference. :ROFL:

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Hello,

its interesting that most of you use a lot of words explaining why power cords cannot make a difference and that was exactly what I didn´t want to hear (read). I know from more than 40 years of experience that power supply, power distribution and power cords for quite limited amount money compared with off the shelf power cords makes a significant difference.
I am not talking about spending several 100 $ or € er meter cord but to use a fairly good quality of shield cord (like hospital quality). I am using the German LAPP CV110 Y a 3x2,5mm2 shield cable made for quality industry machines. In several tests it is said to be the best value for money with hardly any competition.

My question to all of you was based on my lack of experience with MLs ansd I am very happy that at least some of you reported your experience rather than explaining why you are not trusting your ears to prove even unbelievable effects. I must admit that it took a long time before I started experimenting with cords and cables but now I have a dedicated cord from my fuse box to a power distribution bar. I am using gold plated (Chinese) power plugs, they do not cost an arm and a leg and they make a difference, believe me!!!

Anyway I thank you all for your shared words and I can only encourage you to start experimenting even with things that cannot be explained.
Last but not least, my philosophy for High End HiFi is to spend as little money as possible on getting the most out of my system. Some years ago I nearly managed to make a friend cry because my HiFi for app. 35.000 € sounded better than his for 100.000 €.

Dont stop searching for the needle...

Regards
Rino

Although I'm not much of a cable person (I went from generic speaker wires to AudioQuest Type 4's and I heard no difference) I do believe there might be some benefit from upgrading the power cable simply because the stock ones are usually pretty crappy. What I want to know is where the point of diminishing return is. Is a $80 Audioquest as good as a $1,200 Dynamic Design AE15?

sleepysurf said:

IMHO, the crazy proliferation of the cable/power cord industry is a reflection of the huge profit margin in this niche. Even if only 25% of potential buyers believe they make a difference, it's apparently lucrative enough to throw major marketing $$ into. I *do* believe that speaker cables and interconnects can make a small difference, but not so for power cords.

If I had the time and $$, I'd start manufacturing high-end cables and selling them under the "Placebo-Fi" brand.

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Placebo-Fi I love it!

You need to trademark that !

Placebo effects are absolutely amazing! People who believe they are receiving a new experimental drug will sometimes heal faster or feel better even when they are in the placebo group just taking a sugar pill. When you tell them they are in the control group they sometimes won't believe you!

(edit) I just did some googling around and the term "placebo-philes" has apparently been around for a while.

ElectroNoob said:

Although I'm not much of a cable person (I went from generic speaker wires to AudioQuest Type 4's and I heard no difference) I do believe there mi4ght be some benefit from upgrading the power cable simply because the stock ones are usually pretty crappy. What I want to know is where the point of diminishing return is. Is a $80 Audioquest as good as a $1,200 Dynamic Design AE15?

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Cords and cables cannot be looked at as a separate matter showing the same effect on every system and in every location. Like I wrote before I am not a friend of spending 1.200 $ on a piece of cord, not that I do not believe that the 1.200 $ cord will sound better than the 80$ but the question is if the difference is really worth the money.
I have heard quite a lot of different HiFi systems, cables and cords but there is a point where the improvements get smaller and smaller and at the same time more and more expensive. At the end ist all about how much money you want to spend for what?

To answer your question directly; yes I do believe that the 1.200 $ cable will be better than the 80 $ cable but I also believe that you will be able to get very close to the sound of the 1.200 $ cable spending one tenth of the price if you are ready to search and read.
Upgrading my tube poweramps I spent hundreds of hours looking for the best components I could get for limited money. I most probably could have found better components but I am sure that I would have to pay at least 10x the price an possibly gain 1% progress.

Enough for today
Happy listening to all of you. :music:

Hello again,
I just want to express my happiness that so many of you have reacted on my thread. I only started posting threads a few weeks ago and have posted possibly 6-8 threads but never received so many Replys.
The best is that I received all these Replys on a topic that no one believes in :ROFL:
It shows that we are all looking for the incredible wonder to improve our music experience.

Don´t ever give up, somewhere out there it is!

sleepysurf said:

IMHO, the crazy proliferation of the cable/power cord industry is a reflection of the huge profit margin in this niche.

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Alan, while that might be your 'opinion' it is most definitely a fact !!

ahhhhh, cable discussion ......almost as much fun as talking about Hilary and Donald. Thank the Lord the latter will be over with in another 30 hours !

HiFiFuchs said:

I am using gold plated (Chinese) power plugs, they do not cost an arm and a leg and they make a difference, believe me!!!

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If you think that makes a difference then perhaps you would do well to open up your amplifier (or MLs) and see what sort of power cable is on the other side of the receptacle. I'm sure you don't want all that gold-plated magic purity being undone by the cheap bit of multistrand on the other side of your amplifier (you know, in the box where you can't see it) !!

amey01 said:

If you think that makes a difference then perhaps you would do well to open up your amplifier (or MLs) and see what sort of power cable is on the other side of the receptacle. I'm sure you don't want all that gold-plated magic purity being undone by the cheap bit of multistrand on the other side of your amplifier (you know, in the box where you can't see it) !!

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Its all changed for better! :rocker:
I have even changed the bridge rectifier using single SIC diods = huge improvement!

Every time I see discussions like this here I think about Ivor Tiefenbrun's, "If you haven't heard it you don't have an opinion" statement.

I stopped participating in cable discussions here a long time ago.

Bernard said:

I stopped participating in cable discussions here a long time ago.

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party pooper !!

HiFiFuchs said:

Its all changed for better! :rocker:
I have even changed the bridge rectifier using single SIC diods = huge improvement!

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So you think you're a better amplifier designer than the highly qualified engineers you paid so much to design the amplifier for you in the first place?

Bernard said:

I stopped participating in cable discussions here a long time ago.

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Except......you just participated in a cable discussion.

Well last Thursday our dealer had a Dan D Agostino Master reference day and Transparent had their rep there doing a power cable swap in with the same music and same system and it was night and day.. he sat there played a track , let us swap cords and played again . He even let us stream our music as to not be track fooled by HI res slipped in.. I never bought into 1K plus power cords but these made a huge difference from a nice heavy gauge cord from D Agostino..

Would I pay 2k for a power plug? NOPE but I am looking to upgrade soon. I do agree that a dedicated 20 amp line is key for a amplifier..

amey01 said:

Except......you just participated in a cable discussion.

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I just quoted someone else. I didn't express an opinion as I don't have one, never having done a comparison, so technically I did not participate

Bernard said:

Every time I see discussions like this here I think about Ivor Tiefenbrun's, "If you haven't heard it you don't have an opinion" statement.

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Thank you Bernard, that just about sums it up.

RCHeliGuy said:

Placebo effects are absolutely amazing! People who believe they are receiving a new experimental drug will sometimes heal faster or feel better even when they are in the placebo group just taking a sugar pill. When you tell them they are in the control group they sometimes won't believe you!

(edit) I just did some googling around and the term "placebo-philes" has apparently been around for a while.

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Thank you Mark for perpetuating the obvious, insulting objective response.

If you can't measure it, it doesn't exist.

And of course, those who disagree with your science based beliefs and claim that the "subjective" crowd are "receiving a new experimental drug".

Very profound and frankly meaningless.


Gordon

Sorry, I realize that my comments could be insulting. I like to be diplomatic, but I don't see any middle ground on this matter. All people are emotional irrational beings prone to making poor decisions, myself included.

You believe that people like me are ignorant about how things can sound and people like me believe that there are many people faked out by their own minds and are being fleeced.

I don't think there is a middle ground agnostic point of view on this matter. If you don't know than you believe it is possible.