What is the sonic difference between the Summit and the Summit X?

Actually Roberto I am suggesting the reverse. Try MBL, MSB, DCS elgar or Zanden which are available in the used market. At a lower price point the electrocompaniet, above that a Rega Isis. You also won't need the Canto Ref Link, the better dacs are asynchronous enough and do well with a straight USB going into them rather than a Ref link. So that Ref link cost which is well over 1k can be used on a dac

Thanks Bonzo...a good advise. When you listen the Ref Link in Youtube, is where you can listen what it does to the digital signal.

User211 said:

Sorry Joey thread has lost the plot!:devil:

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Hahaha... I can see that the thread has gone completely off course.

It's ok though.

Just found out that my room is actually only 17x15... not 18x15... dang it..

Just listened to Summit X notable improvement in bass from Summit and over my Spires. Bass is dynamic more solid has better timbral variation resulting in a fabulously resolved speaker overall. Bass lines were also easier to follow when they went very low eg Michel Petrucciani Live in Tokyo. I listened to it at local dealer with Simaudio amplification, 700i integrated. From 300 up the sound was very similar to my Spires, rather cooler presentation from the Summit X which may be the lower crossover, or may have been amp or room. Dealer would have offered home dem no problem, but I decided overall to await the Summit X replacement hinted at strongly by Peter Soderberg. In the meantime I may upgrade my DAC powere supply and will definitely upgrade to DC motor and power supply for my LInn LP12! If the expected replacement for Summit X is too costly or too large for my room I shall opt for tithe Summit X at that stage subject to home dem. I'd love the replacement to have slightly bigger panel!! And room correction....

I have to respond here to an assumption that some have jumped to. In an earlier response to a thread about the goods announced at CES and some disappointments about a lack of high end news, my response was that there where some things coming that might make some happy. I did not say that a new Summit was coming in the months ahead. We are always working on new items at many levels of our now broad product line, with projects always ongoing. Obviously, i can not and now with leaps like this are even more hesitant than ever to share some insight for the trouble that this can cause. WE believe that we are fair with news about product releases being within a reasonable time window allowing people to make wise decisions on close outs or waiting, but as there is no new Summit that will be at any show this year, so is long in the future. The Summit does extremely well for us and as one can see by recent reviews, one of the best bargains in high end. it ain't broke folks.
We are all arm chair engineers and appreciate postulations about the promise of a new products but to develop a new product takes a long time of very careful analysis (2 1/2 yrs on the new subs for example) before we launch. A new Summit is pure speculation in the field right now.

Sorry Peter if my response has been one of those causing any difficulty or misunderstanding. My post clearly indicates my respect for the Summit X as do earlier posts including reference to Noel Keywoods rave review in Hi Fi World. My own position is I am happy to wait some considerable time to see what may emerge.... or not. If no better Hybrid emerges in a year from now I'd happily buy a Summit X (subject to home dem) - it's a fabulously well sorted speaker. If I didn't have Spires already I'd have bought a pair of Xs before now.

Peter Soderberg said:

. . . but as there is no new Summit that will be at any show this year, so is long in the future.

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Appreciate the clarification and candor, Peter, but it is a shame to hear this as your reply seems to validate my previous concerns (which you had previously played down) that ML's efforts to diversify their product line on the lower end have adversely impacted their focus on the higher end. There were five years between the Prodigy and the Summit (a complete redesign), and four years between the Summit and the Summit X. It has now been five years since the Summit X was released. If you don't release a replacement this year, it will be six years or more before this product is updated. Yet sometimes it seems there is a lower end product released every few months. Just seems like ML has lost their focus a bit on the part of the business that really made the ML brand name.

bonzo said:

Actually Roberto I am suggesting the reverse. Try MBL, MSB, DCS elgar or Zanden which are available in the used market. At a lower price point the electrocompaniet, above that a Rega Isis. You also won't need the Canto Ref Link, the better dacs are asynchronous enough and do well with a straight USB going into them rather than a Ref link. So that Ref link cost which is well over 1k can be used on a dac

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I would suggest keeping your RefLink and use the ST Glass Fiber between the RefLink and the DAC. The ST Glass Fiber output is the ultimate in isolation and high speed transfer and optical fibers are immune to electrical noise unlike copper wires. Again it is important to isolate your computer from your DAC for best SQ playback. My setup below.

Title of thread guys???? Good discussion re DACs but I don't think they are ML or Summits but what do I know?

Dougster said:

Title of thread guys???? Good discussion re DACs but I don't think they are ML or Summits but what do I know?

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That's why I started a new thread on the subject, hoping to capture people's thoughts on a suitably-titled thread, and not lose the discussion. Is it possible for the mods to move the relevant posts to my thread? Or is that not possible?

Rich said:

Appreciate the clarification and candor, Peter, but it is a shame to hear this as your reply seems to validate my previous concerns (which you had previously played down) that ML's efforts to diversify their product line on the lower end have adversely impacted their focus on the higher end. There were five years between the Prodigy and the Summit (a complete redesign), and four years between the Summit and the Summit X. It has now been five years since the Summit X was released. If you don't release a replacement this year, it will be six years or more before this product is updated. Yet sometimes it seems there is a lower end product released every few months. Just seems like ML has lost their focus a bit on the part of the business that really made the ML brand name.

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On the flip side I really wonder if a significant advance on the Summit X can actually be made.

It's a piece of plastic in between two stators. You can make the holes bigger or smaller, maybe change the stator spacing a fraction, and change the panel size. You can mess with the sub boxes a bit but it is all variations on a pretty fixed theme. Easy to knock up a different speaker and claim an advance I suppose, but post DSP sub-integration where can they really go?

User211 said:

On the flip side I really wonder if a significant advance on the Summit X can actually be made.

It's a piece of plastic in between two stators. You can make the holes bigger or smaller, maybe change the stator spacing a fraction, and change the panel size. You can mess with the sub boxes a bit but it is all variations on a pretty fixed theme. Easy to knock up a different speaker and claim an advance I suppose, but post DSP sub-integration where can they really go?

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Transmission line woofer enclosure?

It'd certainly be different And that's just it - easy to make a different speaker and claim an advance. For some ears TL bass may well be better.

Yes maybe limits to panel improvement, but larger size of the latest XStat not tried yet! Larger bass cabinet and drivers?Also DSP not implemented in Summit X and combo of this with room correction for woofer a la Meridian would be interesting. Within its frequency range the panel stands up pretty well in comparison with live performances. Even with the lesser Spire I'm finding it hard to move on despite an itch to do so! By contrast recent upgrade to my Linn LP 12 has been a knockout! Don't fancy transmission line bass btw but it's decades since I heard one!

Peter Soderberg said:

...but as there is no new Summit that will be at any show this year, so is long in the future. The Summit does extremely well for us and as one can see by recent reviews, one of the best bargains in high end. it ain't broke folks. ...A new Summit is pure speculation in the field right now.

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Thank goodness the Summit X isn't going to be replaced any time soon. I've been caught in the past buying what I thought was a new model, only to find a few months later, it was replaced by a 'newer' model.

I notice Denon introduces new receiver models every year. Many other manufacturers do something similar. At least Anthem keep the same product line going long enough for the paint to dry on your new purchase.

I'd like to think my Montis speakers will remain a current model for at least another year or so.

Peter Soderberg said:

...there is no new Summit that will be at any show this year, so is long in the future. The Summit does extremely well for us and as one can see by recent reviews, one of the best bargains in high end. it ain't broke folks.
We are all arm chair engineers and appreciate postulations about the promise of a new products but to develop a new product takes a long time of very careful analysis (2 1/2 yrs on the new subs for example) before we launch. A new Summit is pure speculation in the field right now.

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Darn! However, I'm glad ML isn't releasing a Summit replacement just for the sake of something new at a higher price point. I'm guilty of being one who postulated that something new was likely forthcoming. Guess I'll just focus on getting my new BF210 sub optimally dialed in with my (legacy) Summits (and room).

Now, what about those rumors of a CLXXX

Talking about dac’s. A MHDT dac with ex. PCM1704 or TDA1541 out of the box is a good bargin. Adding a top notch tube makes many so called high end dacs to be a joke. It is possible and easy just to replace the IC to grade A versions. The over average standard supplied tube GE5670 can with a huge benefit be replaced with a new production JJ6386 - similar in the mechanical design as the most wanted Tesla 6CC42. Using an tubesocket adapter you can upgrade from the over average sounding GE5670 to ex. Reflektor holy grails (ecc88) or equivalent 6922 version - new as old production. With a set of Logans on hand this is for me the best and most fun I had with dac and my quest to get a musical experience from a digital media.