Upgrade from my Ascents?

I have had my Ascents off and on for about 13 years. While they do sound great, I am wondering what ML speaker would be a true upgrade? My limit is about $5K either new or used. Which speaker would be a real upgrade to my Ascents, by giving me a better sound, great image and better bass?

great image = speaker placement and room acoustic treatment
better bass = get a subwoofer and use Room Equilizer Wizard + SPL meter and fiddle with placement and crossover

Not complaining that the Ascents don't have a great image or good bass, but maybe after 13 years, I am looking to see if there are better ML's out there within my budget I should consider.

Are you looking at a new or used pair of martin Logan's? A pre-loved pair of Vantage's or even a pair of Summits would be a nice upgrade without spending too much. Otherwise for new and more money, the Ethos.

Well in my price range new would only include the Theos or maybe an Ethos discounted, but used, I have seen Montis and a pair of older Summits. Which I am sure are probably "better" than the Ascents. The question is will speakers such as the Vistas, Vantages or Theos' represent a big upgrade for me? The problem is that when it comes to used they are usually for local pickup only and here in the NY/NJ area used ML's seems to be relatively scarce for some reason. For that reason you have to sometimes take that Vista that's nearby as opposed to that Summit that's a bargain on the other side of the country.

if you have some extra $ to spare, get a Depth or better yet Descent sub. You will get a bass extension down to 20Hz, which is missing on most speakers anyways (edit: just noticed in your sig you already have some subs). Play with the speaker's placement until you get the final result that you like. I haven't heard Summits, but neither Vista nor Vantage are going to be an upgrade to your Ascents unless you're after bass-reflex enclosures... Perhaps trying different signal and speaker cables might do the trick for you.

Pener, maybe you're right. For a worthwhile upgrade, perhaps the best way to go is a used pair of Summits or better, still, a pair of Montis'. The Ascents were a good speaker in their day. 'Better' is a very subjective term. Certainly either Summit or Montis will offer more dynamics and a superior bass response. Being more specific, the Summit will offer more bass and the Montis will offer a much tighter, integrated bass. I owned Summits before I bought the Montis'. I reckon the bass quality of the Montis is superior to the older Summits.

I guess what you guys are telling me is that the Vista, Vantage or Theos won't be enough of an upgrade for me? I'll at least have to find some Montis or Summits for a real upgrade? Keep in mind that I am not particularly unhappy with the sound of my Ascents, but I guess after 13 years upgrade-itis has set in a bit.

I own the Ascents and the Summits. The Summits have deeper, tighter bass, a little more seamless coherence between woofers and panels, and a smaller form factor. And they are a little easier to drive. That is all. You have to decide whether those benefits are worth the cost to upgrade. Another option is to get a used pair of Prodigies. They are great speakers which are a lot like the Ascents, but bigger and better.

Mixman said:

I guess what you guys are telling me is that the Vista, Vantage or Theos won't be enough of an upgrade for me? I'll at least have to find some Montis or Summits for a real upgrade? Keep in mind that I am not particularly unhappy with the sound of my Ascents, but I guess after 13 years upgrade-itis has set in a bit.

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You did not specify your room dimensions as this is a very important consideration for how much more speaker or bass your listening room can accommodate. An additional point is how far your listening position is from your speakers and if you have any sound treatment in your room. I would agree with some of the other comments that the most significant speaker upgrade would be to go for used Summits (or even better used Summit Xs). In my "ascent" up the ML ladder, I went from Ascent-i's to Summits. Big difference. Also, if you are considering a subwoofer upgrade, you might consider a used Descent-i.

Thanks for all you help guys. My room is 22' x 18'. No sound treatment other than drapes and carpeting. Don't have a bass problem on the Ascents and my DD18's each have their own calibration. I do prefer the Velodyne DD18 to the older Descent that I had here a while ago. I actually would consider Prodigy's if they were real bargains, I could then justify their size to the wife. One of my favorite listening experiences was with Prodigys. Since I am in no rush, I will see what comes up from time to time. If not Summits, then maybe Montis or even Spires.

Consider using an active crossover for only the bass portion of the Ascents. After you bypass the woofer's internal passive XO, you will need an active low pass crossover set at 280Hz, 12dB/octave, and level adjustment, and a ~150W amplifier to drive the bass.

Tosh said:

. After you bypass the woofer's internal passive XO,

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You mean open up the case and reconnect the speaker binding posts to some other part of the circuit?

Tosh said:

Consider using an active crossover for only the bass portion of the Ascents. After you bypass the woofer's internal passive XO, you will need an active low pass crossover set at 280Hz, 12dB/octave, and level adjustment, and a ~150W amplifier to drive the bass.

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Not really looking to enhance the Ascents as much as replace them. Just trying to figure out what used ML's I need to look out for when they come up in my area.

beanbag said:

You mean open up the case and reconnect the speaker binding posts to some other part of the circuit?

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Opening the back cover will be the hardest part; then you bypass (short out) the inductor, and de-solder one terminal of the cap. Easy!

Tosh said:

Opening the back cover will be the hardest part; then you bypass (short out) the inductor, and de-solder one terminal of the cap. Easy!

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So basically the amp is driving the woofer coils directly?

And what about the electrostatic panel? Do you bypass parts as well?

I am currently playing my SL3 with only the bass actively crossed over, so the ESL portion is as stock, with its passive EQ and XO. Active bass lets these old hybrids play all the bass notes extremely cleanly.

beanbag said:

great image = speaker placement and room acoustic treatment
better bass = get a subwoofer and use Room Equilizer Wizard + SPL meter and fiddle with placement and crossover

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+1

Subwoofer was the 2nd best best upgrade I ever made to my SL3's
Placement was the best

Would Vantages be considered an upgrade from my Ascents?

Mixman said:

Would Vantages be considered an upgrade from my Ascents?

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Not in my opinion.