Magico vs Logan………..

Hola. MMMMM, just thinking loud, the CLXs should be consider a complete model adding a sub to it. Martin Logan is now advertising their new sub lines (the BF-212 and the BF-210) along with the CLXs. In other words, the sub is a must. When we make comparisons between other speakers, the CLXs should mate with a sub. Martin Logan design team had taken enough time to design a special filter for the CLXs on the Depth I and the Descend I. Now you can download a special firmware from the Martin Logan site, for the new models BF-212 and the BF-210. I do trust the ears of these golden ears at the team. Did you know that most of team are musicians? All of them play a musical instrument. Some are into wind instruments, others are on string instruments, others are between percussion and keyboards. So, when they are listening to the music, they do know what it is happening there. We as users, we do not need to be a musician to understand all the stage and the feeling of a certain musician The power of the music is such, that our entire mind and body is feeling and enjoying all these wonderful melodies through a device that re-creates what happened at a concert hall. The good thing here, is that our industry is providing each day, better ways, better recordings, where we can get the sense of being there, at that magical moment. This is not an easy task. But we are getting closer to have this magical moment every day, every time that we play this recording in our systems. We have the power to feel this. Our brain had being trained to understand this.

Yesterday, I had the pleasure to have a dear friend, who had a long time to be out of the country. He came by with a Nikko power amp problem. He was not listening any high end, because where he was, (Nicaragua) there is no high end products. When he came to my place, and saw some of the speakers that I have around, he asked me what they were. I look at him with a funny expression, and told him: really?, you have never listen any Martin Logan speaker? Please come here. When he saw my CLXs, he said, boy these are big speakers, the wife will not allow to me to have them, because she is a furniture freak at the living room, and these babies are really big. When the first notes began to dance in the air, his mouth was open, (jar dropping) and he was totally immersed with the quality sound of my CLXs. Then he said, my favorite recording is the other side of the Moon by Pink Floyd, do you have it?... when the clock bells came with all these different ringing tones all over, he said: Roberto, this is enough for me. I can not believe what I just listened to...I did not know that this quality of sound was possible on these days. My speakers are not bad, are the Time Windows by DCM. This is my very first time that I listen Pink Floyd this way!!! It is like having the band playing for me here, in front of me! But more over, I can distinguish every musician with space and where he is playing, according to my brain, and I am getting the energy that was there! This transparency, this stage, this air between the musicians, I can listen the plucking of the guitar strings by David Gilmore, in a such way that I though this was not possible. The drummer effects, and crystal clear cymbals, listening the tip of the sticks hitting them, the energy of the dynamics, the sound of the snare drum, and the bass drum, the electric bass played by Roger Waters, I can understand when he is using a pick and when he is using his right hand fingers to pluck the bass guitar strings adn their voices, some time three of four voices singing together making chords...
...this was a magical moment when the shine of the music sparkle due to my system. I and know that my CLSs, and every Martin Logan model is capable of this! No matter what model you are listening, old or new panels, all of us, this is what we do like! My friend bought a pair of Electromotions, and he called me late last night and said, Roberto, I have the same thing that you have there...this is a magical experience! Thanks!!!
I do not want to bother more with this, I just want you to enjoy your sound and enjoy the musicians playing for you there...in your own place! Happy listening!

dafos said:

As a Q3 owner, that Q7 - Montis comparison got me really curious so I managed to secure a home audition of the Montis, mano y mano with the Q3. On a macro level, the q3 is the more refined speaker, smoother, cleaner, and to my surprise threw a more holographic, layered soundstage. In the crucial midband, it was a give and take. The Montis was superior in creating an illusion that vocalists were in the room with me, it was downright spooky. I've had lots of traditional cone type speakers in my room, and I've never heard such an astounding illusion of placing a vocalist RIGHT THERE. But this came at a price, a touch of midrange roughness/hardness compared to the q3's ultra clean rendition. What I found strange is that while the q3 had a weightier lower mid/upper bass which normally lends more "flesh" to images, the q3 simply could not bring vocalists in the room the way the Montis did. As I have stated, the q3 threw a wider, deeper and more layered soundstage, with the Montis spotlighting images at the front of the stage at the expense of those at the rear. The Montis had a stronger, punchier bass courtesy of the powered woofer vs the Magico's more controlled, tighter bass response. Overall, yes the Q3 is the better speaker but I now keep on looking for that elusive, life like "presence" that the Montis recreates, so much so that vocalists thru the Magico now sounds a touch hollow, a character I would have never attributed to the Magico's sound, at least until I experienced the Montis in my own system. It seems that despite the heroic efforts of Magico to eliminate the cabinet thru its complex, ultra heavy and inert construction, I'm now hearing it! So what's to do next when the Magico defended its turf but was bruised by its inability to match the Montis in that so vital, for me, "you are there" presence region?

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I love vocals, and I have not found any box speaker that can match electrostats for vocals. Granted I haven't heard any $50K+ speakers properly set up, but nothing close to the CLX/Summit X/Montis price range can touch them, Maggies, or any other planar speaker in that range.

asindc said:

I love vocals, and I have not found any box speaker that can match electrostats for vocals. Granted I haven't heard any $50K+ speakers properly set up, but nothing close to the CLX/Summit X/Montis price range can touch them, Maggies, or any other planar speaker in that range.

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THe more I hear, the more I'm beginning to believe this.

I'm sorry but this must be a joke comparing a $180k speaker to a $10K speaker, irrespective of brand/model. If it was the CLX vs Magico Q3, I'm all ears/eyes....

Not slamming MLs, I had them for a number of years and they are very good speakers and do some (possibly even many) things quite well, but everything has it's place...

sb6 said:

I'm sorry but this must be a joke comparing a $180k speaker to a $10K speaker...

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actually no joke at all when you think about it......................given how good the Montis is, the only 'joke' is the asking price of the Magico vs that of the Logan. I'm very well aware of the exponential increase in price vs performance gains but this comparison further proves the incredible value of the Montis.

Keep listening and some truths will emerge.

I've listened to the MAGICO S5 at length that were well set-up, and that open see through the stage sound of the CLX just isn't there. There is a "soft" coloration that is evident to anyone accustom to good ELS's. In the same room, I also auditioned a well set-up pair of Theil 3.7's. Guess what? They capture MORE of what my ear wants to hear then the S5's. The 3.7's had a faster, more open and edge resolving dynamic presentation than the S5's. My ear picks that out in a hurry. To some, other aspects may be important. People will try to get you to listen like they do. Try to avoid this prodding and go with what moves YOU.

Most who use ML products are likely most captured by the physical rendition of the human voice.

Why are the CLX so convincing to those that are moved by the accurate rendition of the human voice? The CLX (my ESL) are about as coherent as you can get. Is that it? Is the incredible speed of a 0.5-mil PET film part of it? Is it the almost instantly damped PET film part of it (near colorless artifacts)? Is it the abscence of any dynamic compression at reasonable volumes (ESL's do have a volume limitation, I agree, even if I never listen that loud) part of it (there are no voice coils trapped inside small spaces to heat-up)?

I do know this, Roberto is so right on the emotional presence of as good ESL. The natural timber of the human voice is so needed for an emotional connection to music I search for it at all cost, and above about all else. Oh sure, I love the treble and bass...but the lack of a convincing human voice (S5's) doesn't hold me in front of the speakers. Once a speaker can capture the human voice, the upper octaves are usually captured well, too. Not so the bass, as this is a VERY different beast all together. I LOVE good bass. If it isn't good, mostly omitting it is fine as it messes up most of what is so pleasing to my ear. Stereo Dual-Force 212 subs?

The CLX are SO good at this. I used to listen to my C4's off axis on the couch. NEVER do I listen off axis with the CLX as the presentation is simply SO GOOD that I can't miss it. The C4's were good, but the on center presentation of the CLX is simply stunning. They are about as good as the C4's off axis with a little "tweak" in stance, but the C4's front and center can't compete to an ear tuned to the human voice, and string transients. C4's have OMG bass dynamics, however...I LOVE them for that. If you never heard a ELS, you'd love C4's. But, I heard the ELS (summit - X's) and now I have CLX's. I didn't walk into the ESL web, it wrapped itself around me and never let go!

I'm still not hearing vocal accuracy in box speakers of anywhere near reasonable prices. Yes, a FOCAL EM Series is pretty darn good, for $100,000! But guess what? It's bass presentation is somewhat "soft" for the price. The edge detail / coherence isn't as truthful as the CLX in my opinion. But, you need the same room to really be honest. I should have no reservations for 100 grand. The cost of the technology? Only if it does it well for the price, otherwise they are just expensive. I've heard a lot of "expensive" speakers.