New Summit X...maybe???

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Beachbound

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Ok, purchased my Summit X's many years back, sold them recently looking for a change. When it comes to leaving ML's...change is not good!! Currently using my Ethos from the theater room, great speaker but I keep having to move them back to watch a movie...patience is wearing thin. It's now into it's sixth year....when will a new Summit X be on the horizon? If I purchase something else (as I already did...a couple of times) I will not be happy regardless of price...when will this new salvation be available to us??? Could life be more frustrating?
 
If they hold true to the past, new models should be coming soon. But with all the emphasis lately on the lower end gear, I am skeptical.
 
If they hold true to the past, new models should be coming soon. But with all the emphasis lately on the lower end gear, I am skeptical.

True, the showing in Vegas gave an audiophile little to cheer about...however, I suppose if they don't take care of their bottom line there won't be a Martin Logan around to produce much of anything. I owned B&W 802d's for many years, they are no different, to keep the higher end going they do have to give consideration to what keeps the bottom line healthy! These are big speaker companies...not like say YG which only has 10 employees, hence a sale here or there will suffice! Something that puzzles me a bit with ML is the inclusion of built-in amplifiers...as you go up the line they are more prominent. Well, I would assume most guys with 15k speakers likely have a good amp, I know I do. I would love a passive Summit X replacement in which I could actually hear what MY amp is doing in the nether regions!! Sometimes I put my surround Vista's in my main system just to do exactly that...beats a self powered woofer any day! My first Logans were the Quest Z back in 95...I miss that flexibility!!
 
I love having the amplified woofer section in my Summit Xs as it makes the speaker much friendlier to drive. The ICEPower class D amps provides a very strong punchy but accurate bass response for me. It is very important on how you place the speakers and adjusting the controls on the rear to experience its full potential. I not yet heard better bass response yet and I’ve listen to speakers costing over $100K.
 
I love having the amplified woofer section in my Summit Xs as it makes the speaker much friendlier to drive. The ICEPower class D amps provides a very strong punchy but accurate bass response for me. It is very important on how you place the speakers and adjusting the controls on the rear to experience its full potential. I not yet heard better bass response yet and I’ve listen to speakers costing over $100K.
Don't get me wrong, the Summit X has been my favorite speaker for many years now...regardless of price, hence I want it's replacement!! My jury is still out though on how I feel about the powered woofers section. I do like to hear the character of my amp and what it can do for me. I just find it a little unusual in that with the ML line, as you move up, the necessity for a high power amp seems to diminish! You have to keep in mind that this wasn't developed for audio quality, it was developed for WAF compatibility!! Seeing as my two channel system is smack dab in my living room... maybe it's the right choice?
 
This statement about a compromise for WAF is wrong. WE went active on the bottom end for several performance advantages. One, it allows us to match woofer and amp parameters exactly, second, It allows us to shrink cabinet volumes to relieve possible ringing caused by large cabinet walls. Third it allows us to build in some room adjustment capabilities you can't do passively and the room interaction is one of the biggest negatives affecting system performance. Fourth, an improvement in efficiency, allowing greater flexibility in choosing your partnering electronics.
As to hearing the character of your amp, by using high level inputs, your amp defines the fidelity of the bottom end. it works that way for REL woofers, why doesn't it for us?
Of course WAF is helped by all this. Sales are/where multiples of the fine Prodigy so that success has allowed us to be constantly working on a much wider variety of goods and resources that allows us to bring multiple technologies to bear at fair pricing. Check out the fantastic review on the Summit by Noel Keywood out of England in February, the very recent review on Montis/Stage on Home Theater Shack for a reviewers take on being active. yes, the next wave is focused on the high end over the next year or so I hope all will be happy over the next several months.
 
... As to hearing the character of your amp, by using high level inputs, your amp defines the fidelity of the bottom end. it works that way for REL woofers, why doesn't it for us?

I can personally vouch that the sonic character of your main amp still impacts the bass performance of the Class D powered woofers. Moving up the ranks from a Sunfire to Belles to C-J Premier 350 amp had surprisingly significant effects on my Summits bass performance. I don't fully understand the electrical fundamentals as to why that is, but am quite glad it's true!

Personally, I'm dreaming of a "next gen" Summit with DSP Room EQ capability (a la PBK). Would be even more exciting if the new BalancedForce Subs, if you have any, could be simultaneously factored in to the overall acoustic measurement/corrections!
 
...
Personally, I'm dreaming of a "next gen" Summit with DSP Room EQ capability (a la PBK). Would be even more exciting if the new BalancedForce Subs, if you have any, could be simultaneously factored in to the overall acoustic measurement/corrections!

Alan, you are being prophetic, as I beleive that will be featured in upcoming designs. It just makes too much sense to leverage the fact that ML has the ability to run custom DSP filters in both the Sub and the main speaker based on a common measurement set.

Speaking of which, Peter, I high, highly recommend that ML look into licensing Dirac. It's measurement process and mix-mode EQ is simply wonderful, it would truly set your products apart from the others.
 
... Speaking of which, Peter, I high, highly recommend that ML look into licensing Dirac. It's measurement process and mix-mode EQ is simply wonderful, it would truly set your products apart from the others.

I agree that Dirac would be fantastic, but I suspect their PBK EQ software (and future iterations) is derived from Anthem Room Correction from their sister company. I'm not familiar with ARC, as my old Denon Home Theater receiver uses Audyssey MultEQ.
 
This statement about a compromise for WAF is wrong. WE went active on the bottom end for several performance advantages. One, it allows us to match woofer and amp parameters exactly, second, It allows us to shrink cabinet volumes to relieve possible ringing caused by large cabinet walls. Third it allows us to build in some room adjustment capabilities you can't do passively and the room interaction is one of the biggest negatives affecting system performance. Fourth, an improvement in efficiency, allowing greater flexibility in choosing your partnering electronics.
As to hearing the character of your amp, by using high level inputs, your amp defines the fidelity of the bottom end. it works that way for REL woofers, why doesn't it for us?
Of course WAF is helped by all this. Sales are/where multiples of the fine Prodigy so that success has allowed us to be constantly working on a much wider variety of goods and resources that allows us to bring multiple technologies to bear at fair pricing. Check out the fantastic review on the Summit by Noel Keywood out of England in February, the very recent review on Montis/Stage on Home Theater Shack for a reviewers take on being active. yes, the next wave is focused on the high end over the next year or so I hope all will be happy over the next several months.
Glad to hear that new product is on the way...I no doubt will purchase a Summit X replacement rather quickly! Regarding the WAF issue, I have only gone by what dealers have told me from very established shops in Toronto to newer ML dealers down here in the south! Must be a bit of miscommunication regarding design philosophy in there somewhere! No doubt if the speakers lacked the powered woofer I may just be wondering what indeed they could sound like with one! Thanks for the info!!!
 
Glad to hear that new product is on the way...I no doubt will purchase a Summit X replacement rather quickly!
Yes I was almost on the point of ordering Summit X, partially re inspired by the
fantastic review by Noel Keywood
mentioned by Peter. This review is particularly significant as NK has a long term interest in electrostatics. I have followed his projects including attempts to increase transparency on his Quads by unclothing them!! He loves full range electrostats and has conducted many experiments with various dipole bass drivers. It is within that context that he has been one of the more critical and informative reviewers on the Montis bass performance highlighting that waterfall measurements reveal reflections from the rear of the bass cabinet. By contrast he is very positive indeed re Summit X.
I have been on point of upgrading my Spires at several points in the last few years...... most recently nearly buying a Velodyne DD+12. Despite Dave's kind support I couldn't quite get over the threshold!! Sorry Dave !! Basically for me I would prefer a non sub solution .... welcoming the extra space and air since I moved on my vast REL Studio (incidentally it had no problem whatever revealing the characteristics of my power amp!) and also focussing improvement on upper bass. The sheer loveliness of the Spires has also stopped me short of splashing out ....(just what is wrong with these Bruce???!!) but I now look forward to a discounted Summit X pair or their replacements!!!
The Keywood review of SummitX is on the home page of the following ML dealer in UK
http://oxfordaudio.co.uk
Interesting times ahead....!! regards Bruce :rocker:
 
yes, the next wave is focused on the high end over the next year or so I hope all will be happy over the next several months.

Give it to me!!! :bowdown:


I may just have to post pone my search. I am hoping for a new Summit X... maybe something with even a slightly bigger panel and a lower woofer crossover point? If reviews of the Summit X are any indication of how good they are - a redesigned or even bigger speaker would be spectacular.
 
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