Aerius panel slippage and low volume.

Hi Guys:

the folks over @ AudioKarma directed me over here. I've got a couple of questions I hadn't discovered while I was reading through posts.

I pulled my pair of Aerius' out of the closet last week and hooked them up. I noted one of the panels was lower than the other. Also the panel that hasn't started to slip is obviously lower in volume than the other.

Is there anything I can test to make sure that there's nothing wrong with the electronics before I assume I've got a bad panel?

As far as the slipping panel goes. I've got mine apart, all wires are good, etc. I'm wondering if I should try the rinsing in the shower trick since I've got them apart already?

when I reassemble them, should I replace the double sided tape the panels were originally stuck to with more double sided tape or is there something better? I hadn't seen anything about that in the posts while I was perusing the site. I did read about screws and a bracket to prevent them from slipping again.

I'm kind of hoping I won't need new panels. Although I guess they would make a fantastic birthday present to myself.

Thanks for any input

Bret

Hola Bret and welcome. To help you out with this one, I need more info regarding the panel. Is the sound of the weak panel, at everywhere of the panel? Or there are sections of it, that the sound is weaker?. It is a good idea to take the shower. What you are telling us is that they were at the closet for some time. Humidity might be present into the electronics PC board. You might have a PSU (power supply unit) issue. To be sure about a PSU problem, you have to swap them, and if the same speaker after the swap is doing the same thing, them it is the panel. If you use the search tool, there is a person who is doing a great job, repairing the stat panels and the cost is about the 30 to 40% of a new panels. If you decided to go for new panels, also, they have 5 year warranty!. Happy listening!

Roberto:

Thank you for replying. They were in the closet for about 6 years. it was in my home office. the door of that closet was actually off. I was always concerned about humidity. not just for the speakers but it was also storage for winter clothes and such. and the house was climate controlled. I have since moved, which is why they've come back out. it's the entire panel that's low in volume. when I swap the right and left speakers, the low volume follows the speaker. I have not tried swapped just the panels back and forth, if that's what you mean. I can certainly do that. Both the panels and myself have had our morning shower now. I used distilled water on the panels (not myself). they were actually dirtier than I thought. I'll give them 4 or 5 days to dry. is it a good idea to replace the foam double-sided tape or just put the panels back and use a screw and bracket to hold them up and rely on friction from the side rails to hold the panels against the frame? the tape is still there and pliable.

I'll go ahead and take the covers off and give the board a once over for any obvious signs of humidity damage. wasn't sure if there's a procedure for testing or not? if I need to measure for HV, I'd need to get a probe for my fluke. :-/

Thanks again for the quick reply!

Yes, do the swapping panels...also, the one that it is weaker, might be still with humidity or needs more washing time. The shower was a good idea. If the foam double side tape is bad, then it is good to replace it. I think it is made by Scotch Tape Company. For the slipping panel, you could get a square hinge at any warehouse, and a couple of screws will do. I do know that at the service dept of Martin Logan, they will ship it to you for free, I think...

Just contact Dana ([email protected]) and tell him about these slipping panels of your Aerius model.

If the panel is the culprit, then new panels is the way to go, or fix them. Fixing them is much cheaper of course. But think about the warranty for new panels from Martin Logan. Yes, they are a hell of expensive, but your speakers will be like new! and the warranty also. I wish to you all the luck! Happy listening.

Thank you. I'll try that and I will email him in the morning. :music:

bfrohwein said:

is it a good idea to replace the foam double-sided tape or just put the panels back and use a screw and bracket to hold them up and rely on friction from the side rails to hold the panels against the frame? the tape is still there and pliable.

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Are you talking about the black 'weather stripping' foam between the cabinet and the ESL panel? Can we see a pic? As that foam ages, it hardens and shrinks, and the mounting rails loose their clamping force on the ESL panel. I have thought of adding a ~1/8" thick additional foam to keep things tight...

I figured I'd look at lowes/home depot after my radio club meeting tomorrow. here's the pics of my panels and such. I spoke to Dana Today. He's sending the brackets. He also sent a trouble shooting guide and instructions for reinstalling the panels and how to install the brackets. not that it's a difficult process.

I guess I could've taken a better pic of the double-sided tape.

I had the panel slipping problem too, but I just took off the side rails and moved everything up again. However, in the process, the electrostat panel split open, i.e. one side of the stator grid became unglued and lifted up. But when the side rails are installed again, they clamp the stators together. Did the membrane lose tension because of this? In my case, the volume seems to be the same as before.

I don't think the double-sided tape (with the backing still attached) on the front stators is stock. But that should be useful for adding clamping pressure.

I also expected to see a substantial foam strip on the cabinet behind the stators (and Velcro), like that of my SL3, but maybe that's the way the Aerius was built?

While you have it all apart, make sure to reinforce all the holes for all the mounting hardware clips, as the screws like to strip out the MDF.

I also expected to see Velcro. Can't remember where I read that there should be. I'm having trouble locating double sided tape locally, that's as thick as what's there and that is less than 1/2 inch wide. what's there is really stuck onto the MDF, but the glue side stayed on the backside of the panels. I also wasn't expecting that there would be strips on the front side of the stators that still had the backing on them. the doublesided tape in between the stators also has the backing on it. they're only stuck together at the top and the bottom. fortunately they are really stuck together at the top and bottom. I'm trying to not start getting irritated at the build quality of these. they worked just fine for years, so I'm just going with that.

Mcmaster Carr has a lot of double side tape to choose from. I know, not local, but an option.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#double-sided-tape/=qcky9a

I managed to get them back together with what was there already. I decided to make sure they work before I spend money on 20-25 feet of doublesided tape. the stuff on the bottom panel was nearly 1/4" thick

put in the stays that Dana sent as well. and the best news of all is they're working very well. Of course, I figured they would if I didn't replace the tape. sort of my insurance policy.

Hola and wonderful news! Happy listening!

I should have probably said there was more involved that just washing. there was a lot of corrosion on the speaker terminals. I cleaned up the little chrome tabs that tie the terminals together as well. I tinned the copper wires for the panel with silver bearing solder, I never did get inside the box. but they sound good... interestingly, one panel seems to have come cleaner than the other. the one that was having the volume issues it the cleanest now. but I do know the process for cleaning. just wondering what I did different between the two. they both got sprayed and then rinsed with distilled water.

with that all being said... does anyone know approx how many hours of play one gets out of the panels before they go bad? I realize that all speakers do wear out eventually. but since the topic had come up in other threads, especially once the prices were jacked up, just curious of the avg lifespan of an ESL panel vs a typical driver/tweeter...

The hissing has returned on one of my panels.. :banghead:

Returned? You hadn't mentioned that so far.

You should be able to pin-point the exact spot of the hissing, which indicates a HV leakage path, and clean or fix it. Try squeezing the ESL sandwich together by hand to see if the hissing changes.

Thats the best advice...apply signal to the bad speaker, and disconnect the cable to the speaker... the hissing could be coming from somewhere else...just a thought!

As far as the slippage of the panel:
The new double sided tape will work but still has the inherent problem of potentially giving in again given time. Take a look at this thread I posted around 2006 or 2007 and see if you can incorporate any of these ideas in addition to your repair.

Here's the link: http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?3433-ESL-Panel-Slippage

bfrohwein said:

Hi Guys:

the folks over @ AudioKarma directed me over here. I've got a couple of questions I hadn't discovered while I was reading through posts.

I pulled my pair of Aerius' out of the closet last week and hooked them up. I noted one of the panels was lower than the other. Also the panel that hasn't started to slip is obviously lower in volume than the other.

Is there anything I can test to make sure that there's nothing wrong with the electronics before I assume I've got a bad panel?

As far as the slipping panel goes. I've got mine apart, all wires are good, etc. I'm wondering if I should try the rinsing in the shower trick since I've got them apart already?

when I reassemble them, should I replace the double sided tape the panels were originally stuck to with more double sided tape or is there something better? I hadn't seen anything about that in the posts while I was perusing the site. I did read about screws and a bracket to prevent them from slipping again.

I'm kind of hoping I won't need new panels. Although I guess they would make a fantastic birthday present to myself.

Thanks for any input

Bret

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