Worthy upgrade to Scenarios?

Hello folks,

I have owned a pair of Scenarios for a few years now. I like the speakers a lot for their clarity and near-field listening (i.e. they sound really good when I have my ear right up to the speaker), but I never got the imaging or room-filling properties of these speakers to work out well. I followed the various setup guides, and I think the more foam I add to block primary reflections and reflections in general, the imaging gets better, but the sound gets this "dry" or "dead" sensation if you know what I mean. It just doesn't sound like the instruments are in the room.

In my newer apartment, the acoustic layout of the room is way worse, so I just gave up and don't bother trying to sit at the sweet spot and listen critically any more. I don't really do any of that any more anyways because it is too time consuming, and now it is more like I have music playing from them while sitting at my computer, and occasionally I turn sideways to listen.

In any case, I was just wondering if any of the other small ML speakers like Clarity, Source, etc, are significantly better about the imaging or room-filling characteristics. For example, the Source has newer technology, but it also has a smaller panel and paper woofer. That kind of seems like a step down.

In general, I listen to small-group classical and ancient music. I like how the ML's can really bring out the all the little instrument sounds like reeds buzzing, percussion tinking, strings sawing, etc.

Hola. Try to get a new pair of Electromotions. You will be in heaven! Happy listening!

I agree, the clarity is amazing. If you enjoy listening to music beyond a level of just "turning on music for something to do", you will not be sorry. Definitely worth the money.

Having read the original post (especially the second paragraph) and with all due respect to beanbag, why bother if they are placed where they will perform at a sub-standard level? Seems like a waste of money to me if you can't optimize performance.

Other options of the box variety that will likely work better.

GG

PS: Too time consuming? Logans take alot of time to get "right".

I started with the Scenario and the moved to the Clarity.. what a difference! The Scenario had a really, really small sweet spot and was hard to drive and the Clarity just opened up.. bigger sweet spot and better dispersion meaning that they sounded good anywhere in the room. I'm sure the new Electromotion would be another step up though I haven't heard them side by side.
I've never been able to optimize my setup due to small or weird rooms but did follow the placement suggestions with the ML videos and always did find a nice sweet spot.

Gordon Gray said:

PS: Too time consuming? Logans take alot of time to get "right".

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The time consuming part refers to the "critical listening" part where I have to sit in a dim room at exactly the sweet spot and basically not do anything else for an hour while trying to pick out little details. Been there, done that, got better ways to spend my time.

MickeyVee said:

I started with the Scenario and the moved to the Clarity.. what a difference! The Scenario had a really, really small sweet spot and was hard to drive and the Clarity just opened up.. bigger sweet spot and better dispersion meaning that they sounded good anywhere in the room. I'm sure the new Electromotion would be another step up though I haven't heard them side by side.
I've never been able to optimize my setup due to small or weird rooms but did follow the placement suggestions with the ML videos and always did find a nice sweet spot.

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Thanks, that's just the kind of comment I am looking for. I plan to set them up once and then not "richard" with them any more after that. Even when I am way off the sweet spot in a lousy room setup, the clarity of the sound is nice. I guess I am just looking for a bit more "presence", or whatever you call it.

The other thing I am wondering about is what makes the newer generations of ML's "better" than previous ones. I mean, they're just electrostat panels with a woofer. What part is quantitatively better? What makes them image better?

Hola. Just go to listen some, and tell us what do you did find. Perhaps your ears will not tell any difference or perhaps you would. My liking could be different than your liking. Sound is a matter of can you listen or you can not. Also, with your statement, I was wondering why the Electromotions were nominated Product of the Year 2011. Only marketing? How many speakers do you know that holds this kind of distinction? Do your homework and read about them, but not only the reviewers, read what the customers say about them. Read about the new panel, which has exposed over 40% more than the older panel, allowing this to be more efficient, so now, you can use only 20 Watts/channel to drive them with good quality sound. The new panel diaphragm weights less than the air that it moves!...You know that our there are a lot of new low power amplifiers with great sound, and with the Electromotions, they will shine and sing along...there are many new things that make this new Electromotions a true winner, but let your ears decide, not ours. I wish to you a very happy listening!

I was only able to listen to them at a Best Buy / Magnolia where they were set up too close to the wall, powered by a Pioneer receiver, and played with a CD that was not my own. They had the "usual"(?) problem where the music sounds like it is either coming from the left or right speaker, and some kind of mush in the middle. So there is no way to compare them to my speakers in a fair manner at all.

I don't really understand the technicalities but you're at least 2 generations behind in the stat panels. You can check ML's site for the techno stuff. I just trust my ears and I found that the Clarity's sounded good all over the place and amazing in the sweet spot. Honestly, sitting in the sweet spot with the Scenarios, if I turned my head, I lost it. I had a couple of feet in the sweet spot with the Clarity's.
YMMV depending on room acoustics. The floor with my main system is totally open and I'm wandering around prepping food for tonights celebration and the sound is still amazing just listening casually. That's with the Vista's. I think the new EM's will do the same.
Does BB offer a money back guarantee? Can you trial them? Note that they will need at least 50-100 hours of burn in before they start to really sing, maybe longer. Good Luck and let us know what you eventually do.

beanbag said:

The other thing I am wondering about is what makes the newer generations of ML's "better" than previous ones. I mean, they're just electrostat panels with a woofer. What part is quantitatively better? What makes them image better?

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Hi bean,

There are many, including myself, that enjoy "critical listening" and don't consider it a waste of time. In fact, it's a wonderful way to spend one on one time with the music. That's generally the reason why people like ML stat speakers because they allow you to connect with the music in a very personal way.

If you don't, so be it.

Cheers,

GG

At the end of the day, it's all a personal preference. As for myself, I went to the store and listened to a set of energy veritas towers and the ESL. Both were set up next to each other. The veritas had a great dispersion and punch, but the clarity of the ESLs were exceptional. Certainly spent more than anticipated but it was well worth it. I'm a true movie buff but now I like to sit and listen to music on the ESLs, music actually sounds different. The clarity and sound is amazing. If you want them to sound great, you may need to do some work. Again that's a personal preference. Personally, I enjoy spending time tweaking and changing the system....

MickeyVee said:

I just trust my ears and I found that the Clarity's sounded good all over the place and amazing in the sweet spot. Honestly, sitting in the sweet spot with the Scenarios, if I turned my head, I lost it. I had a couple of feet in the sweet spot with the Clarity's.

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Did you run the clarity's with the tweeter on or off?

I preferred the tweeters off.