Sonos / the best mouse trap?

Anyone had any experience with this wi-fi / wireless system?

Seems like its the best for multi-room / multi-source applications for those wanting reasonable quality background music.

Any other systems that offer the same flexibility / value?

All comments appreciated.

GG

Are you finally getting into music streaming Gordon? Welcome to the club!

The Sonos systems are great - but only if you stick to your comment above for "background music". The reason being that they do not do high-res and top out at 16/44.1k. Worse, I don't think they even play high-res, so if you start to amass a collection for the future you won't even be able to play those files without converting them and maintaining two libraries. PITA. And high-res files are becoming more and more common now.

My bet though - is that when you discover the ease of use and the fact that it changes how you use your music collection, the music server will be become [firstly] your primary listening source, and [ultimately] almost your only music source.

So that being the case, you might want to look a little further afield to systems that can do high-rez.

Now, that's where it gets difficult. Because there are two aspects to music streaming - 1. computer tech; and 2. audio quality.

I'm of the opinion that the best way is to split the two. Keep the computer stuff separate to the audio signal - much the same way as we keep the preamp separate to the amp. Except it is more important - computer/tech is well different to the audio world, and they most postively require two different mentalities to get right. Audio companies can't do good tech, and tech companies can't do good audio.

With the computer stuff, you want something from a solid tech company, that can provide reasonable updates and invest a decent amount in the human/machine interface. Audio companies (from my experience) just can't do that.

With the audio side - well, need I explain? Of course, computer companies can't take care of that.

The absolute best system I have found that takes this into account is the Squeezebox. Unfortunately, it is discontinued.

The best alternative I can see is the vapour-ware Olive ONE. It will be interesting to see it when it is released. But it looks eminently promising!

Failing those two options, I'd steer clear of any solution that puts a hard disk in your listening room, or contains a hard disk. Ripping is damn annoying, and you want to do it once and once only. Ripping on computer means it is easy to back up and store offsite. You absolutely NEED to do this.

So that leaves you with either:

1. Connect a computer directly to a USB DAC and run a long cable through a wall (or the like); controlling the computer with an IOS/Android device running software such as Clementine.
2. Use something from an audio company like the Naim streamers. They are more expensive than you need to spend on what is essentially a wi-fi access point, but they also contain better audio electronics which will be wasted if you have a better DAC.

The negatives of both these options leaves me unable to recommend them.

So what I would do if I were in your position - rip your music to FLAC (an open format) on a computer and set yourself up a good offsite backup regime.

Then - does the Cary have digital inputs?

If yes - then look for a cheap used Squeezebox Touch to tie you over until something else comes along. You may also find something from a lower-end company might do the trick - maybe Yamaha?
If no - look for a streaming system from Naim (or similar) - a larger, reputable company that invests a certain amount into the tech side of things.
If no - I'd also consider buying a DAC and going with option 1, as it will give you more flexibility in the future. The Meitner DA-1 would look good in your system :O Although, Roberto and I (and maybe Tim??) love our M-DACs.

Or you could use analogue out from the Squeezebox/Yamaha/etc and once/if you realise that it is your primary source then you could add the DAC later.

Options, options!

And if you truly just want background muzak, then perhaps the easiest and simplest way to achieve that is to buy a 160GB iPod and connect it up to your preamp using a 3.5mm analogue cable?

Adam,

Thanks so much for the detailed reply.

Truth be known, I'm seeking advice for my Doctor who asked me about the Sonos system.

I will make him aware of the shortcomings.

Best,

Gordon

Gordon Gray said:

Truth be known, I'm seeking advice for my Doctor who asked me about the Sonos system.

Click to expand...

HAHA - that makes sense

One day Gordon - you'll have to come leaping and bounding into the year 2002...........come on, it'll be fun!

Adam,

I take great pride in saying that I am a child of the 60's.

Forget all about the decades past that.

They know nothing.

Have a great holiday.

Gordon

May I suggest the Lampizator Dac, which I found to wipe the floor with AR, Meitner, Weiss, you name it? I still have to demo it against MSB and Nagra, but will do so shortly. However, the creator (Lukasz) is getting rave reviews for his Transport as well, which is a tubular transport for digital files (instead of the HD). At 1800, people seem to have sold their Linn 7k ones immediately on listening to it. My first choice before the Lampi was the Esoteric CD/SACD/Dac

People have also been Lampizatoring other CDs and Dacs, for those whom budget is an issue. Apparently one can buy a used 100 quid player and follow Lukasz's instructions from his blog on changing power supplies and capacitors to produce some great sounds.

I have also had excellent service from them. I just ordered a Lampi (Justin already has one), and the dealer advised me not to get an Oppo for DVD, instead he has asked Lukasz to mod a used Toshiba DVD for me and assures me it will be much better than Oppo.

All I can say is try it out. There are lots of guys on audiocircle as well modding, and just call a dealer and ask him to send you a demo piece of the Transport or the Dac. To me at least, it sounds better than any CD I have heard, and that includes Esoteric and Audio Research CD9. Also thanks to its built in pre, I am not buying the Ref 3, running it directly to my Ref 110, it's so good

Gordon, for your doctor friend, the Sonos is a no brainer. Plug and play, set it up once and forget it. I have 3 zones in my house and use it constantly.

Adam - yes, I love my Audiolab M-DAC. My system is in a state of serious transition right now, and dare I say it, the M-DAC is the only component that is currently in use, along with a set of Audeze LCD-3's.

Tim,

Are you moving everything to your new room?

What's your assessment of the Sonos sound quality?

Gordon

Gordon Gray said:

Tim,

Are you moving everything to your new room?

What's your assessment of the Sonos sound quality?



Gordon

Click to expand...

Gordon, sound quality vis the analog outputs is acceptable if intended as background music. We have one zone that is shared on our deck and in the family room and this one uses the analog outs. In my office I have it hooked up via coax to my M-DAC (also using the USB input from my Mac Mini for Hi-Rez), and it very definitely sounds better. I'm giving some thought to getting the Wyred 4 Sound mod to the unit I'll eventually have in the listening room downstairs.

Yes, I'm FINALLY starting on the dedicated room. We had the house painted and in preparation I had to tear the system down so that nothing got ruined. I made a huge commitment by turning the existing room into an office only and telling myself that I wasn't going to set the system up again until I had a much larger dedicated room in which to do so. Construction will start right after the first of the year. in the meantime everything is packed and protected down in the basement and I'm getting by with the M-Dac and my Audeze's in the office along with an old receiver and some small speakers, and my portable headphone rig everywhere else. I figured it would force me to keep things moving along if I robbed myself of the pleasure for a while. Not that I'm suffering much, the Audeze LCD-3's are the best sounding headphone I've heard - I prefer them to the Stax personally. I may pick up a Woo amp in the spring as well.

I presently have one Sonos Connect connected optically via Peachtree iDac to preamp/amp and ultimately my Theos. And via the norwegian streaming service WIMP I now have unlimited access to virtually any music made.

This has dramatically changed my music experience; any music I want, commanded directly from my iPad/iPhone. Munch easier and more convenient than my old CD's and LP's, by wide margin!
I also have a pair of Sonos #5, providing music on my terrace in summer, and now supplying music in adjacent living rooms. I will definitely get one or three more, as the first will stay put, and I then need new ones for my terrace, and probably the kitchen will also need one...
Extremely simple and user friendly interface allowing me to search artists/albums, access and create playlists, and create optimal sound balanse between different rooms.

Quality is excellent, Both sound and build. I have difficulty with distinguishing streaming at 320 kbps and CD's. It is so good, that the difference doesn't matter. And recently there has been added an option to stream lossless:

http://magazine.wimp.no/2013/09/wimp-hifi-lossless-music-streaming/

I honestly cannot understand the elitist attitude among some that 44,1/16 sucks... But that's their problem; letting numbers stand in their way to listening enjoyment.

In other words; I wholeheartedly recommend Sonos! Try it, and you're hooked.

Gordon,
I believe there may be another alternative... one of the Music Servers from Olive especially the 4HD or 6HD (I own and love our 6HD). I've taken my modest several hundred CD collection and loaded to the Olive and 'sold' the CDs and simplified my life tremendously (nice WAF attribute). I'm able to check-out or reserve CDs at my local public library for free or $.25, respectively so my collection of CDs has grown considerably, frequently based on MLO recommendations. Additionally, I've used HDTracks to purchase super high quality recordings that are definitely very distinguishable (clean, clear, precise) from their CD counterparts. Lastly, we just love the Internet Radio feature of the 6HD which allows us to listen to super quality music including from Linn contemporary, classical and jazz stations at 384kbits. These stations are extraordinary and are worth a sizable sum by themselves. This time of year we listen to the Life Radio Xmas station out of Austria at a modest 128kbits that is seasonally great. Of course there are stations like FeelingFloyd out of France, Beatles-A-Rama out of Australia and Jazz options like Smooth Jazz (134k) out of Poland or Rasta Music out of Germany (192k). Unfortunately, I have no experience with a Sonos solution but I can tell you that we love the Olive and can't imagine a better music server/HD Radio station solution. Naturally, we use our IPad and IPhones to operate the Olive and of course parties are a big hit when we let guests IPAD browse through our 500+CD collection to pick an album or artist.... it can become the centerpiece of the gathering.
Your Doctor friend just might want an Olive solution for their home or office environment.

bonzo said:

May I suggest the Lampizator Dac, which I found to wipe the floor with AR, Meitner, Weiss, you name it? I still have to demo it against MSB and Nagra, but will do so shortly. However, the creator (Lukasz) is getting rave reviews for his Transport as well, which is a tubular transport for digital files (instead of the HD). At 1800, people seem to have sold their Linn 7k ones immediately on listening to it. My first choice before the Lampi was the Esoteric CD/SACD/Dac

People have also been Lampizatoring other CDs and Dacs, for those whom budget is an issue. Apparently one can buy a used 100 quid player and follow Lukasz's instructions from his blog on changing power supplies and capacitors to produce some great sounds.

I have also had excellent service from them. I just ordered a Lampi (Justin already has one), and the dealer advised me not to get an Oppo for DVD, instead he has asked Lukasz to mod a used Toshiba DVD for me and assures me it will be much better than Oppo.


All I can say is try it out. There are lots of guys on audiocircle as well modding, and just call a dealer and ask him to send you a demo piece of the Transport or the Dac. To me at least, it sounds better than any CD I have heard, and that includes Esoteric and Audio Research CD9. Also thanks to its built in pre, I am not buying the Ref 3, running it directly to my Ref 110, it's so good

Click to expand...

Wow this is some pretty good kit you compared it to can you comment on its ovrrall sound? Bass derail warmth imaging soundstage you know tge drill!!

HI Timm, it's warm open sound, very non-digital. If you do a search on it, you will find that people are replacing what they have with the Lampi, including dCS and all that. I am not surprised. I have bought the Level 4, and there is a Level 7 out there as well. Level 5 onwards you get a separate power supply.

All I can advise is that get a dealer to come over. It comes with 2 valves and 4 caps, and by changing valves and caps, you can change the sound