Right amp for the Montis

I'm currently a ML Vista owner along with various other ML pieces that make up my home theater system. My Vista's are powered by a B&K Reference 200.2 amp. I want to upgrade to the Montis soon, and I was thinking about an amp and preamp upgrade at same time.

What's the right amp for the Montis? Will a 75 watt tube amp work? Is a solid state amp always better for an ESL? I was reading about the Sanders amps and thinking the ESL II or Magtech may be a good choice.

Any experience with the Montis out there?

Thanks

Steve

Hola Steve. The Montis, and your Vantages, are very easy to drive. With only 20 Watts/channel you can have them singing for you, clean and crispy. 75 Watts/ channel in a tube amp will drive them very nice. Amplifiers are like food. You might like the taste or not. Let your ears decide what they like. Trust your ears!. Out there are a big market place, and tons of good value products, like Prima Luna, or VTL. I just listen a Margules power amp, not too expensive, model u280 in triode mode, and I did like a lot what I listened. We tried all type of musical instruments and all kind of music, classical, jazz and vocals mostly. The Montis sang very nicely, with no trace of stress or ear fatigue. We played over 6 hours with them. The Montis are a jewel to use. Happy listening!

Thank you Roberto. I love the Audio Research Reference 75 and would love to pair it with ESLs. It sounds like it may be a good match with the Montis.

I have the Vistas today. They have a passive woofer and a difficult load for an amp. When i first got them home i connected a Marantz receiver to the Vistas, but the receiver overheated and smoked. I got the B&K amp to run the Vistas instead. I don't want a similar experience when connecting an Audio Research Reference amp to the Montis.

Because Martin Logan is not easy to drive, especially on the early models, high end brands like: Mark Levinson, Krell, Audio Research, Classe, Aragon, Bryston, Conrad Johnson, Cary Audio, and many others, use Martin Logan as a tool design. What happened to you with the Marantz receiver, is that you cranked it too much, at a point of saturation, and this, makes the amplifier to run very hot, until it brakes. Distortion on ML is not very evident at the beginning. You have to learn when your amplifier is clipping. Many times we do not get this clipping, because our ears were used to have a lot of distortion with other speakers...there are many cone speakers that produce such distortion, and we get used to it. Of course, there are nice sounding cone speakers, too. The new amplifier by Audio Research is wonderful. It uses the KT-120 as output tube, bringing a lot of power and effortless dynamics. Your new Montis will shine with this amplifier. On the other hand, the bass at your Vistas were driven by the Marantz. You need a lot of power when you have a Martin Logan non powered woofers. Because the Montis have a 200 Watts power amp on each speaker, the Audio Research will be driving only the panels...and will play clean and loud too. Do not worry about this with the Montis. It is a safe buy! Happy listening.

Silvercat59 said:

... Will a 75 watt tube amp work?

Click to expand...

Yes, it will. Like Roberto said, the Montis doesn't need much power. As long as the amplifier has the ability to handle low impedances.

Hi Steve, I am looking at amps right now for Summits, have demoed Krell, Levinson, Burmester, Audio Research 75, Bel Canto, Electrocompaniet, and this weekend will be doing Conrad Johnson, Graaf, and GamuT. My reviews are here. One I ruled out after multiple tries is Devialet

http://www.martinloganowners.com/fo...Power-and-Electrocompanies-monos-with-Summits

http://www.martinloganowners.com/fo...-Burmester-Levinson-and-AR-Ref-75-on-Summit-X

Any of the several ML's I've owned, the results are the same, in that these speakers are very amp dependent, more-so than any others I've encountered over the years. For speakers I settled at a mint pair of Monolith II's because of the immense panel size and have tried several amps. The one I've stayed with is an Audio Research V-70 tube. It's just so darn detailed and provides exceptional linear quality from top to bottom. I've run Bryston, Proceed, Classe to name a few and this one is the best I've encountered for these speakers. This isn't to say the others were not good but they just didn't have the synergy this one does.

roberto said:

Amplifiers are like food. You might like the taste or not. Let your ears decide what they like.

Click to expand...

Hey, I like that! I have always maintained that Roberto is a poet!

I'd say more of a philosopher!

Bernard said:

Hey, I like that! I have always maintained that Roberto is a poet!

Click to expand...

My dear friends, you are too much! I should say wine...but the truth is, there are a lot of great brands, that can handle the low impedance that ML exhibits in the panels. Sunfire, Sanders, Carver, the sister company of Martin Logan Anthem, VAT. ... just do your research or, ask your dealer. On the other hand, we have Bonzo, who had tried several power amps to drive his Summits, and still, he is searching for his taste. There is a rule for me...there is no perfect amplifier. All of them have the designer characteristics and sound. Some of us believe that power is important, others believe that the new Montis can be driven with small power amplifiers with outstanding results, like the Viva mono blocks, with 22 watts each. I have a customer here who is using these Vivas amps driving a pair of Montis. He likes mostly jazz and female singers...they really sound great!. All depends too on your budget. In EBAY or AUDIOGON, perhaps you could find a used amplifier in a very good price. Just, trust your ears, and choose the one that you liked most! Happy listening.

Steve, welcome to the group !

Myself, a Spire owner (as close to Montis as you'll get) I , as you can tell from my sig, like my tubes as well as Class A SS. Tubes can be tricky though, you must have a well designed amp with enough bandwidth so as to not noticeably roll off the upper freq. The other issue possibly with your set up is if I'm reading correctly yours is a HT 5.1 set up. So, equipment matching is of concern with respect to the multiples of drivers involved.............. I'm a two channel guy so this is something I don't concern myself with.

Hi yes, I think I can do with more than one amplifier, different sounds for different times of the day. I can like more than one. As long as you don't buy the one you don't like, you are fine. In my case it will be a choice between Krell/Levinson vs AR types.

I have just bought an used Mark Levinson 27.5 which, as per reviews, is more musical than the current ones, and I found it at a great price. Wil lcontinue to demo valves though, just to see the difference. Unless you have been doing this for a few years, I think one should just embrace the change and the uncertainty and fun that goes with it

sleepysurf said:

I'd say more of a philosopher!

Click to expand...

I stand corrected; you are right, of course

Bernard said:

I stand corrected; you are right, of course

Click to expand...

Indeed! So it seems that we philosophers have found analogue and tubes to be too much trouble, and have abandoned audiophilia. However, there are two small problems: (1) philosophers never agree on anything, and (2) we read this website every day. Hmmmm....

Many choices. In the end, the only opinion that matters is Silvercat's.

GG

I am getting a new pair of Summit X speakers, should arrive this saturday. I tested a few different amps with them, one of which was the McIntosh MC275 which is 75 per channel. To me the 275 wasn't enough power so I went with two of them running as mono blocks which then gives 150 watts to each speaker. I also tried the speakers with McIntosh MC601 mono blocks which is 600 watts per speaker. The power needles on the amps just move above the 60 watt mark for my preferred listening levels. So the main question is how loud to you listen to music and how large is your room?

twich54 said:

Steve, welcome to the group !

... you must have a well designed amp with enough bandwidth so as to not noticeably roll off the upper freq.

Click to expand...

twich54, the 'upper frequency roll' off you're describing - does that apply to to most tube amps in your experience? Just curious. I notice that my Montis sounds very smooth in the upper frequencies compared to some other amps I tried. I thought this was because the amplifier is exceptionally well designed and specced. Could it also be that it's rolling off as well...(?)

Larry said:

Indeed! So it seems that we philosophers have found analogue and tubes to be too much trouble, and have abandoned audiophilia. However, there are two small problems: (1) philosophers never agree on anything, and (2) we read this website every day. Hmmmm....

Click to expand...

That makes me a non-philosopher as I am still with tubes and analogue. BUT....I have long abandoned the head-in-a-vise listening critically position; so I a not an audiophile either. Put me down as a plain music lover.

Talking about philosophers, Bernard. I am another music lover... at my age, all what I want is to listen to the musician(s) playing for me, at my own place. And this is what I am getting through my system, no matter if my amps are Bel Canto, Audio Research, or many others that are in the market place. Yes, there are not to well done amps, or better say, I do not find them tasty to my ears as I do with others. What I love is to have the soul, the feeling of the musician(s) giving love. Yes, I am a music lover too! Happy listening.

edwinr said:

twich54, the 'upper frequency roll' off you're describing - does that apply to to most tube amps in your experience? Just curious. I notice that my Montis sounds very smooth in the upper frequencies compared to some other amps I tried. I thought this was because the amplifier is exceptionally well designed and specced. Could it also be that it's rolling off as well...(?)

Click to expand...

Ed, what '50 watt mono block tube amps' do you have ?

With respect to my experience with tube amplification up against electrostatic speakers, it's limited, yet with that being said the science and engineering alone does dictate the needs I speak of with respect to the upper and lower freq. Euphoric and pleasing distortion be damned !! …… All kidding aside an easy way to see if your getting the upper range desired is to listen to cymbals being played, especially the 'bell' area of a ride cymbal…..does it have the crisp and sizzle that it should ? As good as my Rogue's are my Plinius when biased into Class A is still slightly better…… yet the mid-range magic of tubes is what we all clamor for !