sleepysurf
Well-known member
Just read this Press Release from CE Pro. Sounds like another management shakeup where Shoreview is consolidating Sales and Marketing under a single roof.
Another shakeup at ML?
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Does not seem to be a major change, he was already the head of sales for all three brands, rolling in marketing is pretty typical.
The line about product influence is the one that intrigues me, as it probably points to past disagreements between product development and sales.
I deeply respect the sales role, but I'm usually leery of overdue influence on product. It usually leads to inconsistent product vision as short term sales and partnerships get prioritized.
To me, the best performing companies have a strong product visionary, typically a founder or leading industry luminary.
The line about product influence is the one that intrigues me, as it probably points to past disagreements between product development and sales.
I deeply respect the sales role, but I'm usually leery of overdue influence on product. It usually leads to inconsistent product vision as short term sales and partnerships get prioritized.
To me, the best performing companies have a strong product visionary, typically a founder or leading industry luminary.
To me it just re-emphasizes what I already knew: ML is no longer ML, but is now a subsidiary of Paradigm. The brand name hasn't changed, but the management sure has. The ML that many of us knew and loved is long gone.
Bernard
Well-known member
And Porsche is a subsidiary of Volkswagen. Just sayin'
Are you just trying to make me cry, Bernard?
Bernard
Well-known member
Why would you cry, Rich? I was just pointing to the paradigm of the VW/Porsche relationship, which is being paralleled by Shore.....is it view or screw?
Peter Soderberg
Well-known member
I have to get in here. Paul is from ML, has done a great job and is simply taking his well deserved place in terms of bringing more ML to Paradigm, not the other way around.
He, like the rest of us at ML in the field, cut his teeth in retail, managed his division superbly. He has done a great job growing our success and now will have even more input, including hiring an operation guy that fits better our sensibilities. In the years past, we haven't had much say, now we do. I am tired of continued slams against us, when you have 0 facts to base those charges. As you all may know, our serice is still great, new products at all ends of the spectrum are coming and we are well on our way to a 3rd record year. Shoreview has been a great supporter and have been a very handsoff owner. We needed them greatly when the economy sank and with that support ML is in far better shape than ever. Jonfo, yes, we sales guys can get a bit enthusiastic, but we do have a check and balance system so fear not on us getting too much on the stove top, although your designs, ideas do inspire. Rich, I can as a long time ML employee and sold it at retail for 20+ years, have to call you on your rose colored glasses of the good old days. Hate to tell you but ML had some very bad streaks during those times and several times where nearly gone or severly downsized. We are in a much better place today and are far better run. Most of ML is still there, such as Joe V, Joe M, Greg D, Scotty W, etc, all of them very long term members from that time to today and all of them would tell you the same. I am thrilled for Paul to take this postion in a more official sense as he was one of us, leaning on the bar saying what he would do if he was running the company. Now one of us is.
He, like the rest of us at ML in the field, cut his teeth in retail, managed his division superbly. He has done a great job growing our success and now will have even more input, including hiring an operation guy that fits better our sensibilities. In the years past, we haven't had much say, now we do. I am tired of continued slams against us, when you have 0 facts to base those charges. As you all may know, our serice is still great, new products at all ends of the spectrum are coming and we are well on our way to a 3rd record year. Shoreview has been a great supporter and have been a very handsoff owner. We needed them greatly when the economy sank and with that support ML is in far better shape than ever. Jonfo, yes, we sales guys can get a bit enthusiastic, but we do have a check and balance system so fear not on us getting too much on the stove top, although your designs, ideas do inspire. Rich, I can as a long time ML employee and sold it at retail for 20+ years, have to call you on your rose colored glasses of the good old days. Hate to tell you but ML had some very bad streaks during those times and several times where nearly gone or severly downsized. We are in a much better place today and are far better run. Most of ML is still there, such as Joe V, Joe M, Greg D, Scotty W, etc, all of them very long term members from that time to today and all of them would tell you the same. I am thrilled for Paul to take this postion in a more official sense as he was one of us, leaning on the bar saying what he would do if he was running the company. Now one of us is.
Bernard
Well-known member
Thanks for the explanation, Peter. I think we're all still smarting from the steep price increase of replacement panels, but we don't have to reopen that discussion here.
Peter Soderberg
Well-known member
and yes, that issue was brought up again at last months end of year meeting. We got the whole run down on the costs and we where truly losing money on them to the point we where at risk of closing that division or shortening availability. it would actually be a good example of how things weren't run very will in the past since it had never had a careful accounting of all that went into maintaining it as a neurtrel revenue division. Good news is the frequency of replacememt has been dropping for a long time as the new materials are proving longer life spans. and don't forget they will sound better than what was used long time ago becaue of new panels, better, tighter assembly, etc. it smarts us all, but the reality is the reality. Go price some B&W midrange and tweeter costs to help you feel a bit better. it helped me. We are business, not a charity sadly so must at least break even in some areas. We are maintaining the equipment and materials storage, as well as manufactuering them in Lawrence so we can make these heritage parts as long as suppliers can get us stuff.
sleepysurf
Well-known member
Peter, thanks for the update. It's always a bit disconcerting when we stumble upon a news release like this elsewhere on the net, with no official comments here. Perhaps, in the future, posting a "simultaneous" new release and explanation here would reassure the masses!
Still looking forward to the new subs, and hopefully a Summit "XXX" down the road! :rocker:
Still looking forward to the new subs, and hopefully a Summit "XXX" down the road! :rocker:
I appreciate your loyalty to your company, Peter. But you are not exactly instilling me with confidence. Prior to his time with ML, Paul worked as a general sales manager for Tweeter, did he not? And we all know what happened with Tweeter . . .
Not saying that was his fault. I have no clue. But just because he has been at ML for the past few years doesn't necessarily instill any confidence, especially given the number of managerial decisions at ML that I have disagreed with over the past few years. What strikes me about the press release is him mentioning "the exceptional customer loyalty [the brands] inspire" when so many management decisions made over the past few years have directly eroded that same customer loyalty. I was certainly a die-hard ML fan, with tens of thousands of dollars invested in ML speakers (which I am still enjoying). But if I were making the same types of purchases today, I would have a hard time convincing myself to buy the ML over several competing brands. Just my opinion. Take it for what its worth.
EDIT: I feel the need to add this. Peter, your statement that Shoreview has been a very "hands off" owner is almost laughable. If merging you with Paradigm, moving ESL production offshore, firing long term production and customer service employees, doubling or tripling prices on replacement panels, focusing new product development on low fi home theater products, etc. etc. is what you consider "hands off" I would hate to see hands on.
Look, I have no doubt there are still some long time ML workers left and I applaud you guys for holding onto your jobs. But don't even try to pretend that somehow translates into "we are the same old ML, just with a nice big corporate brother to help us get through the tough times." I have a feeling had you been one of those who lost their jobs in the re-shuffle, you might have a somewhat more cynical view of the company. Just sayin. . .
And as far as needing a corporate partner to get through the tough economy, I notice that Magnepan and Soundlab are still in business and still manufacturing in the USA. And both of them are still focused on what they are known for: producing quality products at the high end of high fi. You don't see them sullying their brand or wasting their resources with things like earbuds or cheap made in china home theater speakers. So, I guess what I am saying is, when I say something like: "ML is no longer ML, but is now a subsidiary of Paradigm. The brand name hasn't changed, but the management sure has. The ML that many of us knew and loved is long gone." don't even try to tell me I have no facts to back it up. The facts are overwhelming.
Not saying that was his fault. I have no clue. But just because he has been at ML for the past few years doesn't necessarily instill any confidence, especially given the number of managerial decisions at ML that I have disagreed with over the past few years. What strikes me about the press release is him mentioning "the exceptional customer loyalty [the brands] inspire" when so many management decisions made over the past few years have directly eroded that same customer loyalty. I was certainly a die-hard ML fan, with tens of thousands of dollars invested in ML speakers (which I am still enjoying). But if I were making the same types of purchases today, I would have a hard time convincing myself to buy the ML over several competing brands. Just my opinion. Take it for what its worth.
EDIT: I feel the need to add this. Peter, your statement that Shoreview has been a very "hands off" owner is almost laughable. If merging you with Paradigm, moving ESL production offshore, firing long term production and customer service employees, doubling or tripling prices on replacement panels, focusing new product development on low fi home theater products, etc. etc. is what you consider "hands off" I would hate to see hands on.
Look, I have no doubt there are still some long time ML workers left and I applaud you guys for holding onto your jobs. But don't even try to pretend that somehow translates into "we are the same old ML, just with a nice big corporate brother to help us get through the tough times." I have a feeling had you been one of those who lost their jobs in the re-shuffle, you might have a somewhat more cynical view of the company. Just sayin. . .
And as far as needing a corporate partner to get through the tough economy, I notice that Magnepan and Soundlab are still in business and still manufacturing in the USA. And both of them are still focused on what they are known for: producing quality products at the high end of high fi. You don't see them sullying their brand or wasting their resources with things like earbuds or cheap made in china home theater speakers. So, I guess what I am saying is, when I say something like: "ML is no longer ML, but is now a subsidiary of Paradigm. The brand name hasn't changed, but the management sure has. The ML that many of us knew and loved is long gone." don't even try to tell me I have no facts to back it up. The facts are overwhelming.
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sleepysurf
Well-known member
Latest ML/Paradigm/Anthem CEO leaves after just one month on the job... http://www.cepro.com/article/melchione_out_as_president_ceo_of_anthem_martinlogan_paradigm/
InterMechanico
Well-known member
Very late, and not a VolksFan, but Volks also owns Bugatti and helped develop the Veyron, which is the fastest supercar; over and over again.
InterMechanico
Well-known member
Sorry for carrying on, but the Veyron is also, IMO, the most perfect machine ever built.
Wow! I'm speechless.
Bernard
Well-known member
That's unusual for you.
