Who makes the amps inside Martin Logan speakers and subs??

Odd question but just curious, does anyone know if Martin Logan makes there own amps for there speakers and subs (ethos, descent i )or does another company make them for them? I called Mcintosh the other day to ask some questions about there amps and the rep stated that they help Martin Logan makes there amps. Is that true? Does anyone know?

Bang and Olufsen from Denmark. These are OEM. Also are special made for Martin Logan with their requirements and specifications. Happy listening!

This is a Spire back board where the Bang and Olufsen digital Icepower amp is...Happy listening!

Dang, no wonder ML are so expensive.

nathantw said:

Dang, no wonder ML are so expensive.

Click to expand...

given Roberto's example (Spire), which I own, I consider them and their replacement (Montis) to be one of the 'bargain' 10k speakers on the planet !

Hola Dave. You know, I think you are right with this Statement, I will include the Ethos too... and a truly bargain!!! Your Spires are one of a kind. Very dynamic, with full body robust bass, with tons of definition, silky mid-range, timbre and tonal balance just right, with effortless musical tour for any kind of music, and furthermore, no glare into the voices, no more sopranos with a cold and flu. The stage is beyond the left and right side, with truly 3D sound. Stage is wide with air between instruments, and a depth that it is good for almost any recording, a truly jewel to use and have. Happy listening!

nathantw said:

Dang, no wonder ML are so expensive.

Click to expand...

The ICEPower op-amp modules are commodity OEM part - they can be found in car amps, kit amps, Chinese website budget amps, subwoofers and of course, some high-end kit as well. They are hardly the reason for much of the expense of an ML speaker.

Bel Canto, Wyred 4 Sound and others use the same B&O boards albeit some are modified to a degree. Excellent product.

amey01 said:

The ICEPower op-amp modules are commodity OEM part - they can be found in car amps, kit amps, Chinese website budget amps, subwoofers and of course, some high-end kit as well. They are hardly the reason for much of the expense of an ML speaker.

Click to expand...

Agreed. ML has massive markup (like everyone else). I can't imagine that the Summit X costs much more then $1000/pair to build.

Hola. I do not know about you guys, but I had being servicing in my electronic workshop, a lot of high end gear, and I can assure you the top quality parts that you find inside Martin Logan cabinets. You will be shock of what you do find into another famous brands, and please, do not ask for those brands, it is not ethical from me to do it, because I provide service to them too. Now, what I do for Martin Logan, it is, service the brand free of labor when the warranty had expired. You only pay for the parts. My labor is free of charge. I do not do this for the other brands. The OEM ICE power amp made by Bang and Olufsen, it is made for special requirements and specifications for Martin Logan. You can not take this amp for Bel Canto or similar. There are some differences at the PC Board. But it is a class D digital amp, rated at 200 Watts/4ohms load. The model Purity, uses this amp, including the panel. It is a full range self powered speaker. Martin Logan is not making them any more, because to do it, will be too expensive as far as I know.

Hocky said:

Agreed. ML has massive markup (like everyone else). I can't imagine that the Summit X costs much more then $1000/pair to build.

Click to expand...

That's quite a HUGE markup if that's the case. I'm in the wrong business.

Hocky said:

I can't imagine that the Summit X costs much more then $1000/pair to build.

Click to expand...

Hocky, I doubt you did very well in Economics 101.........simply put, YOU try and duplicate that speaker for anywhere close to 1k !

myself , having toured M/L in Lawrence, Ks and seeing what 'as a whole' goes into production I doubt very much that your 1k figure is acurate !

twich54 said:

Hocky, I doubt you did very well in Economics 101.........simply put, YOU try and duplicate that speaker for anywhere close to 1k !

myself , having toured M/L in Lawrence, Ks and seeing what 'as a whole' goes into production I doubt very much that your 1k figure is acurate !

Click to expand...

Hocky..Dave is right. They cost $1100 to build

coolcobramatt said:

Hocky..Dave is right. They cost $1100 to build

Click to expand...

almost......................1100.95 !

twich54 said:

Hocky, I doubt you did very well in Economics 101.........simply put, YOU try and duplicate that speaker for anywhere close to 1k !

myself , having toured M/L in Lawrence, Ks and seeing what 'as a whole' goes into production I doubt very much that your 1k figure is acurate !

Click to expand...

What do you think the parts cost? $1000 is probably low, but probably not too far off.

Per speaker, I would guess something like this:


$200 box
$100/amp x 2 = $200
$100/driver x 2 = $200
$200 in crossover/turn on/transformer
$150 panel
$50 misc wiring and connectors
-- $1000 each.

Not including R&D, overhead costs, support costs, etc, of course, but I bet that actual hard costs are not much off of that. Let's be honest here, these are pretty damn simple speakers and all of the parts are brought in from outsourced suppliers except the panel and maybe the box (which is very simple, anyway). The B&W 802d would be far more difficult and expensive to build.

Hocky said:

$100/driver x 2 = $200

Click to expand...

The one thing I do know is the cost to ML on a simple 8" or 10" driver wouldn't be but a fraction of your estimate. I live near the company once made all the woofers and mids for Kicker (car audio) and even the cast basket models weren't over $20 each. As teens, we used to drive out and buy them for our car systems and save big bucks (just no Kicker dust cap for prestige). I bought a pair of 15's once for $50. Now granted that was 1988, but I can't see the costs increasing by 20-25% since.

Point being, the drivers won't be $200 for a stamped basket woofer. Your other figures I wouldn't have any experience with so you may be on target or way off

coolcobramatt said:

The one thing I do know is the cost to ML on a simple 8" or 10" driver wouldn't be but a fraction of your estimate. I live near the company once made all the woofers and mids for Kicker (car audio) and even the cast basket models weren't over $20 each. As teens, we used to drive out and buy them for our car systems and save big bucks (just no Kicker dust cap for prestige). I bought a pair of 15's once for $50. Now granted that was 1988, but I can't see the costs increasing by 20-25% since.

Point being, the drivers won't be $200 for a stamped basket woofer. Your other figures I wouldn't have any experience with so you may be on target or way off

Click to expand...

You're probably right. It has been proven a few times that ML uses low end drivers in many of their products. $25 peerless woofers, $2 peerless tweeters, etc. I think that the Summit, Spire, and Montis probably have higher driver cost as the woofers that they're using are much beefier than the lower end models, but they're still probably not any more than $100/ea.

You've probably overestimated the cost of raw goods

BUT:

You're all forgetting a few things:

1. R&D cost
2. Labour and tooling
3. Site/factory costs (the lights don't stay on for free)
and importantly,
4. Profit - no, not a dirty word, but necessary for the operation to continue.
5. Many more things......

That said - the cost of replacement panels are a joke, and maybe the cost of the base product should come down if ML are going to continue this "printer cartridge" pricing model, where the bulk of their profit comes from sales of consumables.

Hola Hocky... have you ever look inside the B&W 802? I do have. Happy listening!

Some of the manufacturers are outrageous on some things. I wanted a new shipping box from ARC and they wanted $ 115.00. Now maybe I can rationalize, sometimes but not often, their repair rates or tube prices, but that was very much over the top, I thought.