Martin Logan EFX as rears??????

Does anyone here own a pair of EFX's? If so, what do you think? Are they worth the $3K for a pair? I'm thinking of buying two pairs to use as my surround and back surround. Let me know what you guys think. I'll have them hooked up to a Mcintosh MC205. Right now I have four Motion 15's as my rears powered by the MC205. Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Hola. The benefit of the model is that they are very thin, and you will get the transparency of the electrostatic sound. They are not too good at the bass response, but I do like them as an effect rear or side speakers. Ideal for a very HT High Quality Sound System. Happy listening!

mamba24 said:

Does anyone here own a pair of EFX's? If so, what do you think? Are they worth the $3K for a pair? I'm thinking of buying two pairs to use as my surround and back surround. Let me know what you guys think. I'll have them hooked up to a Mcintosh MC205. Right now I have four Motion 15's as my rears powered by the MC205. Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks.

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I use the EFX as rear speakers and a pair of older Stylos for surrounds. They do a great job. Are they worth $3k? It's all relative. See Photo.

JayGee said:

I use the EFX as rear speakers and a pair of older Stylos for surrounds. They do a great job. Are they worth $3k? It's all relative. See Photo.

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Nice set up. How do the EFX's sound? I haven't heard them yet. Can't find a place that has them to demo.

mamba24 said:

Nice set up. How do the EFX's sound? I haven't heard them yet. Can't find a place that has them to demo.

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As rears they sound great. I am driving the surrounds and rears with a pair of McIntosh MC302's. In a small room/apartment they may work as fronts. But in a larger theater setup I would only use them as surrounds or rears.

EFXs as rear speakers

mamba24 said:

Does anyone here own a pair of EFX's? If so, what do you think? Are they worth the $3K for a pair? I'm thinking of buying two pairs to use as my surround and back surround. Let me know what you guys think. I'll have them hooked up to a Mcintosh MC205. Right now I have four Motion 15's as my rears powered by the MC205. Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks.

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I have EFXs as surround speakers (replaced Script-i) to go with CLX/Stage X front and center. They are being driven by a Pass Labs X-3 (150 W/ch). They blend in very well indeed and are not difficult to drive. They do not have copious bass but I have 4 Descent subs in my system so bass is not an issue. I think that you would do nearly as well for what information is in the surround channels of most material to go with Script-i (used) if you can find them. The difference is not staggering (ESL panel is older design) and you would certainly save some bugs

I have EFX front mains and rears and won't go back. I purchased them from an AVAD dealer for $2600/pair new. They have exceeded my expectations probably because my room is only 10x13. They get louder than I want to play and I run them with an integrated amp NAD T787 no sweat. It has not shut down in protection mode at my volume levels. I cannot tell a difference over my separates although I have no way of A/Bing them in a controlled way but can say that I don't know why anyone would need more power in a smaller room like mine at my listening levels. It is simply unnecessary plus the NAD doesn't overheat even within the unventilated cabinet which is a benefit to driving them with more than enough power. Good luck putting your Onkyo in a cabinet. My watt consumption went from 240+ watts with separates to 130 watts integrated. The EFXs are bolted onto the side wall leaving at least two feet from the front walls and are 9 feet apart so it worked out perfect.

The only problem is, when you're on the couch, the panels are not ear level. These either need to be bolted lower like a few inches from the floor (which will look weird from a design/aesthetic standpoint or you have to flip them upside down so the middle of the panel is ear height. Currently when I stand up, the volume gets louder and I hear more details which is a little frustrating knowing I'm missing out on 10% of the performance.

I used to think that since ML designed these as surrounds in mind, they probably wouldn't make good mains, but remember that they have the same panel area as a source which was intended to be mains and people love them. I believe they have the same panel area as the script-I as well but is better quality with updated looks and tech.

I don't miss my Spires after blasting one of Diana Kralls Jazz CDs on it. They retain the electrostatic sound but with a very small foot print. Sure you can get a full range cone speaker for that price like a top of the line Klipsh RF7 but after the demo at best buy, they were nothing but loud sounds like any other typical mid grade brand and leave a huge footprint which was my original concern. Basically, the sound quality was so good that I now understand why ML owners dislike DSP sound fields. basically, these speakers are a ML Source with a smaller woofer.

I believe a lot of the EFX price goes into the application specific purpose and lower sales volume but I'm sure it will blow away anything of this footprint. As for price , I'm sure it's better with the exception of dynamics of certain types of music. I think that is obvious.

Watching the new Silent Hill on these with a ML sub and MotifX center tuned with just XT was really good and got better the more I turned it up probably due to the fact that the 120watt FDC rated amp was not stressed/clipping. Although I don't have a system to compare it to, the sound quality was apparent. Tons of surround information constantly as if the surrounds could be mains which makes me believe full range surrounds/matching does have benefits.

I'm not sure what is better between the Spires woofer integration and the EFX with subs. I have not AB'ed them but an external sub will require more tuning/placement. Because I have to run a sub, I use the sub as a drink holder so I don't lose footprint savings over the Spires they replaced.

mamba24 said:

Nice set up. How do the EFX's sound? I haven't heard them yet. Can't find a place that has them to demo.

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I'm in San Diego but I won't be back until September

Two things:
One, yes, place them upside down so your panel and head alightnment works, been doing that for years.
Two: misconception. They where not designed to be a dedicated surround but just as a speaker. By all means use them for fronts!. Plenty of time where one can't get a floor stander in there so we have the EFX for those who panel and big image to go with the big pictures but can't put something on the ground.

Peter Soderberg said:

...They where not designed to be a dedicated surround but just as a speaker.

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I didn't know that, but obvious if you read the blog about them. I've always thought they looked great and a good option if you're short of space.

Peter Soderberg said:

Two: misconception. They where not designed to be a dedicated surround but just as a speaker.

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For good reason, the picture on the ML website shows them being displayed as surrounds. No Gallery pictures of them being used as fronts. Then the first title reads "SURROUND YOURSELF WITH EFX". After that their is a clip that reads:

The EFX is also the ultimate high-performance home theater surround speaker and complements MartinLogan's entire line of electrostatic loudspeakers. EFX rotates with the pivoting wall bracket to easily focus your surround sound experience.

That's three things, and one little blurb that says you can use them next to your flat screen.

No question that the majority use it as surround and is its most common use, but we have also displayed them as stereo mains at shows to remind people that they can be used up there. A speaker can't tell if it is a gunshot or a violin nor can it tell it should only do surround. I will ask to get the website modified.

Peter Soderberg said:

No question that the majority use it as surround and is its most common use, but we have also displayed them as stereo mains at shows to remind people that they can be used up there. A speaker can't tell if it is a gunshot or a violin nor can it tell it should only do surround. I will ask to get the website modified.

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Any technique for setting them as surrounds? Should you still try to listen to the inner third of the panel or just point them straight since we are dealing with multiple seating positions?

Peter Soderberg said:

No question that the majority use it as surround and is its most common use, but we have also displayed them as stereo mains at shows to remind people that they can be used up there. A speaker can't tell if it is a gunshot or a violin nor can it tell it should only do surround. I will ask to get the website modified.

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I wasn't advising to change the web site. The website does state them being used as mains. I'm just pointing out that it seems like they designed them as a surround solution for the ESL line first and mains second. That's all

Boris said:

Any technique for setting them as surrounds? Should you still try to listen to the inner third of the panel or just point them straight since we are dealing with multiple seating positions?

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I'd like to know as well.

The more I look at these speakers, the more I like 'em. I wonder if Ml has considered offering them with a dedicated floor stand for smaller rooms or as a teaser for the bigger ML models - similar to Magnepan's offering of the little MMG(?)

edwinr said:

The more I look at these speakers, the more I like 'em. I wonder if Ml has considered offering them with a dedicated floor stand for smaller rooms or as a teaser for the bigger ML models - similar to Magnepan's offering of the little MMG(?)

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They will fall forward when you stand them up. A stand would work but now you're using as much space as a Theos or EM. Bolting them to the wall keeps them out of the way completely. It only cost me $35/speaker to have someone bolt them to a wall with anchors.

mamba24 said:

Does anyone here own a pair of EFX's? If so, what do you think? Are they worth the $3K for a pair? I'm thinking of buying two pairs to use as my surround and back surround. Let me know what you guys think. I'll have them hooked up to a Mcintosh MC205. Right now I have four Motion 15's as my rears powered by the MC205. Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks.

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These are my surrounds (CLXs and Stage X, Descent-i subs x 4 are the other speakers). These guys are terrific and more than replaced the Script-is.

Boris said:

Any technique for setting them as surrounds? Should you still try to listen to the inner third of the panel or just point them straight since we are dealing with multiple seating positions?

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I know I am quoting myself here but I never really got an answer to my question.

I've had my EFX as surrounds for a little while now. I was wondering if anyone else that is using EFX as surrounds could post their feedback on ideal positioning in a 5.1 setup. Currently they are set at 110° and they do not seem to image as strongly in some scenes as my Motion 4s did when I was using them as surrounds. I contribute this loss of effect to the somewhat difficult "sweetspot" of the ESL panel, I tried to replicate the same flashlight technique for positioning as I used on my front L/R. (Listen to inner-third of the panel)

The real question is would placing them at 90° so they are in line with the listener provide the best surround effect to the side and from behind due to the ESL radiation pattern?

Boris said:

I know I am quoting myself here but I never really got an answer to my question.

I've had my EFX as surrounds for a little while now. I was wondering if anyone else that is using EFX as surrounds could post their feedback on ideal positioning in a 5.1 setup. Currently they are set at 110° and they do not seem to image as strongly in some scenes as my Motion 4s did when I was using them as surrounds. I contribute this loss of effect to the somewhat difficult "sweetspot" of the ESL panel, I tried to replicate the same flashlight technique for positioning as I used on my front L/R. (Listen to inner-third of the panel)

The real question is would placing them at 90° so they are in line with the listener provide the best surround effect to the side and from behind due to the ESL radiation pattern?

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I have my EFXs on the rear wall, about two feet behind my listening position. They are eight feet from the center of the listening position. Mounted height places the middle of the ESL panel at ear level. The output volume has been balanced with the front and center channels through my surround processor with an LF cut-off of 70 dB (same as my Stage X center channel). My 5.1 listening experience is quite extensive as I am a professional Blu-ray reviewer. There is a tremendous amount of variation in surround channel information on typical Blu-ray video and audio discs with some having very little (except for ambience) while a few have substantial surround effects.

The so-called "flashlight" image is not critical for surrounds. In fact, the more panel that is exposed to the listening position, the better the presentation of ambient sound effects. Hope this is helpful.