Theos are in!

Seeing as they are new, I can't really make any calls on sound but they seem to equal the Vistas I had last with more highs (which I had hoped for). I don't notice as wide a soundstage but I'm pretty confident they will open up once they get broken in.

I did post my MF A300 up on a few sites for sale, thinking of making the jump to a more powerful integrated (or different brand just to try something new) or maybe some entry level separates. For a few hundred more than what I can get for my MF, I can probably score separates. Here's what I'm considering though, I would love fellow site member's opinions on which would be the best route to go:

Musical Fidelity A5 or M6i (higher power integrated route)

Classe CAP-151 (same power rating but new brand route)..maybe a lateral move and if so, no need to spend more $. Edit..this one sold so it's no longer an option.

Krell KAV 250a and a matching preamp (used separates route)...maybe Parasound 2200 or one of their HCA line

My gut tells me the separates are always the way to go but this amp not being a higher dollar Krell and I've got no way to hear any of these. Will the big power upgrade be a better match for my Theos?


I picked these options after seeing what is currently out there on the net for sale. My TV is HDMI but I've not found a pre-amp or integrated with an HDMI input that has a price tag I can fit into my budget.

How much are you looking to spend?
I found the Theos sound "evolved" over perhaps the first 200 hours or so, but significant changes the first 75 hours (about). I've been using large (200+ into 8 ohms) amps and like the headroom.
In any case, whatever your decision, enjoy them!!



http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?14619-System-461-(Theos

ktchnman said:

How much are you looking to spend?
I found the Theos sound "evolved" over perhaps the first 200 hours or so, but significant changes the first 75 hours (about). I've been using large (200+ into 8 ohms) amps and like the headroom.
In any case, whatever your decision, enjoy them!!

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?14619-System-461-(Theos

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under $1500 is the target goal but as close to what I can get out of my A300 is always better

I'm running the Yamaha A-S2000/ CD-S2000 pair with my Vistas and am very satisfied. The soundstage is wide and accurate, while not overly bright. Overall, the pair mesh seamlessly and compare very favourably with other systems that I've demo'd in store. The amplifier has zero issue driving the Vistas to high sound levels. It doesn't seem to be working hard at all. Have a look and try a demo if you can. The A-S2000 is very well built and I think it looks great too. The only annoyance is that the balanced inputs are limited to 2.8 volts, while most gear runs 4.5 voilts, so if using the balanced inputs, you'd need to use attenuators as well.

InterMechanico said:

I'm running the Yamaha A-S2000/ CD-S2000 pair with my Vistas and am very satisfied. The soundstage is wide and accurate, while not overly bright. Overall, the pair mesh seamlessly and compare very favourably with other systems that I've demo'd in store. The amplifier has zero issue driving the Vistas to high sound levels. It doesn't seem to be working hard at all. Have a look and try a demo if you can. The A-S2000 is very well built and I think it looks great too. The only annoyance is that the balanced inputs are limited to 2.8 volts, while most gear runs 4.5 voilts, so if using the balanced inputs, you'd need to use attenuators as well.

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Thanks for the input. The MF makes them sound great, I am just wondering if a step to something more powerful would take them to the next level. Not getting much input on the question so maybe I am better off sticking with the A300.

I run my Vantages with a set of Vincent SP-T100. They are very stable, and yet beguiling and detailed in their sound. Tube input/driver stage, and transistor (Toshiba) output stage to deliver 200 W in 4 Ohms. Class A up to 20 W in 4 Ohm.

Test and measurement can be found here: http://ebookbrowse.com/vincent-sat-1-spt-100-test-magazinu-hifiworld-uk-pdf-d398918896

Bevensee said:

I run my Vantages with a set of Vincent SP-T100. They are very stable, and yet beguiling and detailed in their sound. Tube input/driver stage, and transistor (Toshiba) output stage to deliver 200 W in 4 Ohms. Class A up to 20 W in 4 Ohm.

Test and measurement can be found here: http://ebookbrowse.com/vincent-sat-1-spt-100-test-magazinu-hifiworld-uk-pdf-d398918896

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I will look into these thanks!

Congrats on the new Theos :rocker:
What is lacking with the MF A300 that you're trying to address? As I recall, the MF A300 is a fine integrated and should match well with the Theos. With regards to the amps you've mentioned:
Classe CAP-151 - The Classe' is a bit warmer, focusing more on the midband when compared to the A300. Some may described the Classe' as slightly rolled off at the top frequencies.
Krell KAV250 - I consider the Krell integrated to have a "dry/metallic" sound. It may impress you initially with all the emphasis at both extremes, but after about 20 minutes of listening, I find the KAV to be "ear-piercing". Not my cup of tea.
MF A5/M6i - Incremental improvement from A300. A bit more dynamic given the extra power.
Parasond HCA - A step side way in the amplification department. You'll need to go to the Halo series to get better sound than your current A300.

First, I'd stick with the A300 to see how it matches up with the Theos. If you really want to change, of the limited choices you've listed, I'd go with the MF M6i. But then, why limit yourself to these? You should take your time and do more research to find that better piece.

Good luck

I second what Spike has mentioned. Take your time and save up for something that really will give you measurable improvements. I would consider a Pass Lab power amp. This brand and ML are a match made in heaven.

Spike said:

Congrats on the new Theos :rocker:
What is lacking with the MF A300 that you're trying to address? As I recall, the MF A300 is a fine integrated and should match well with the Theos. With regards to the amps you've mentioned:
First, I'd stick with the A300 to see how it matches up with the Theos. If you really want to change, of the limited choices you've listed, I'd go with the MF M6i. But then, why limit yourself to these? You should take your time and do more research to find that better piece.

Good luck

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Spike and Northy..thanks for the help. Spike, to answer your question, well nothing actually. I love the a300, it's my second go around with this model, I tried a Plinius 8200 mkII and Krell 400xi and found myself coming back to the MF. That's why I was considering the higher power A5/M6i. My question was would I see a difference sonically (not volume level) that is significant enough to make the jump (thanks for answering that) FYI on the Krell, it's not an integrated, it's a separate. Thus my thoughts on bumping to the Krell or Parasound...since I would be going with true separates, would that be worth retiring the A300? I've always read that separates give the best sound.

I would love to have a Pass Labs but those will be out of my budget for many more years. I am researching the many other options but as there are no quality audio dealers within 4 hours of me, I can't just walk into a store and audition different choices. I have to buy based on reviews and recommendations. That's how I got into Martin Logan in the first place ..(also Oppo and Musical Fidelity).

intergrated vs. separates

Generally speaking, separates give better sound than integrated all else being equal. But as with everything audio, nothing is that simple. It all boils down to product execution and whether that product matches with your preference. The MF A300 is a fine piece and it's going to be hard to beat given the $1500 budget. Yes, it's THAT good! So, before going down the path of recommendations, please let us know what you're looking for in terms of sonic preference. What type of music you're listening to. How big is your room and how loud is your normal listening setting.

If you want power look into wyred4sound amps and integrateds

Spike said:

Generally speaking, separates give better sound than integrated all else being equal. But as with everything audio, nothing is that simple. It all boils down to product execution and whether that product matches with your preference. The MF A300 is a fine piece and it's going to be hard to beat given the $1500 budget. Yes, it's THAT good! So, before going down the path of recommendations, please let us know what you're looking for in terms of sonic preference. What type of music you're listening to. How big is your room and how loud is your normal listening setting.

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I would like to improve the headroom and dynamics overall. Right now I'm finding myself with the volume level up past 50% to reach the impact I like. I feel like I'm pushing my A300 close to where peaks will make it clip (or be running close to empty). I have read so much about throwing a solid 250+ at the Theos would make them "sing". So that's what got my mind wandering. If my A300 works this well, wow they will be that much more dynamic with a bigger amp. That's the biggest reason I was targeting the A5 (of course now the A5 used market offerings have dried up).

I listen to classic rock when doing music (Donald Fagen to Val Halen) but most of my listening comes via movies. The ML's have always given me the best immersive experience when it comes to home theater. I'm using a two channel only setup btw. I like it louder than the typical person I'm sure. My room is a quasi-single room..in that it was a family room but has the walls removed that once separated the living room. So my basic listening "area" has only three walls and to the left is wide open into the previous living room area. Size of the listening area is approx. 13x18 ft. Ceiling is the typical 8 ft ranch style home height.

projectormovielover said:

If you want power look into wyred4sound amps and integrateds

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I haven't looked into those other than a peek. Not knowing much about new companies and with the up and down reviews of Emotiva, I kind of assumed I would be getting into the same type of deal with Wyred4sound. You know the "too good to be true" type of thing. Just reading the overall controversy surrounding Emotiva has made me shy away from any "new" brands and gravitate towards the brands I know (i.e. Musical Fidelity).

I have read so much about "throwing" a solid 250+ at the Theos would make them "sing".

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Looks like you've answered your question with this statement. Keep in mind that more power does not mean better sound! Given that you did not like the Plinius integrated, the only option on the table within your $1500 budget is the MF A5. Going the "separate" route, you'll probably need at least $2500 budget to get better sound than the MF integrated.

I just bought these little gems less than a month ago for $1960 and @70wpc they are great. As far as W4S amps go they are nothing like emo, its a new type of tech. If it helps then know that MartinLogan uses these amps inside all thier speakers so they cant be that bad

Spike said:

Looks like you've answered your question with this statement. Keep in mind that more power does not mean better sound! Given that you did not like the Plinius integrated, the only option on the table within your $1500 budget is the MF A5. Going the "separate" route, you'll probably need at least $2500 budget to get better sound than the MF integrated.

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oh dont get me wrong I loved the plinius as well...just the mf had much better presentation and muscle.

projectormovielover said:

I just bought these little gems less than a month ago for $1960 and @70wpc they are great. As far as W4S amps go they are nothing like emo, its a new type of tech. If it helps then know that MartinLogan uses these amps inside all thier speakers so they cant be that bad

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those are purty!

I don't want to be tempting you but there is one beautiful piece of art called MF NU-VISTA 300 currently for sale on one of "the marketplace" web pages. Pretty and powerful. If you like Musical Fidelity this could be a nice catch.
Also, if you are patient, you can find MF 550K monoblocks-little monsters for $1500-$2000. These amps could perform magic on my Vistas and were major reason I upgraded to 750k's.
Read this article from Sanders Sound Systemshttp://http://sanderssoundsystems.com/technical-white-papers/esl-amp-wp

Currently have Musical Fidelity A3.2CR (similar to A300???) driving my rears just fine but as a main amp for Vista or Summit turned out to be fiasco. The X-P200 (driving my center) was better match to Martin Logans in general but still very, very far from my reference amp 750k - obviousy.

I know that amp specs are not everything but it may be fundamental thing to start from when pairing amp with Martin Logans (read above link).

My Theos sound much better now that I switched from a Sony ES 6400 AVR to a Marantz 8801 pre/pro and Parasound Halo A 51 amp. I switched to the amp first and noticed an immediate improvement in dynamics, headroom, and overall musical accuracy. The 8801 added further improvement through its Audyssey room correction circuitry. (The Sony has a far less sophisticated version of that type of circuitry.) That combo, however, costs about 6X your budget! (That's list price: I got a pretty good deal on both.)

ktchnman said:

How much are you looking to spend?
I found the Theos sound "evolved" over perhaps the first 200 hours or so, but significant changes the first 75 hours (about). I've been using large (200+ into 8 ohms) amps and like the headroom.
In any case, whatever your decision, enjoy them!!

http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?14619-System-461-(Theos

Click to expand...

My Theos took a very long time to settle in - and they did love power. But certain lower powered amplifiers seemed to drive them well (like my old Bryston B-60). I guess it's a suck and see approach with these speakers.