Hello from Sacramento - my ML history and my reason for coming

Hey all,

Just making my introduction and saying hi.... So uh, HI!!!

I was quite happy to stumble upon this forum - as I've been a LONG time fan of Martin Logan.

As you can see by my picture, I am definitely a "set it and forget it" kind of guy. I don't upgrade often, but when I do - I choose exactly what I want, and make sure it has the quality to last a long time.

How long? Pictured are my original Aerius (notice the OLD old logo design) - which are all original, and still working perfect some 2 *decades* later. Here's the thing, they still sound as incredible as the day I bought them. They've been feed all their lives by my trusty Carver A-753x which I had re-capped the day I bought, and live happily with almost daily use.

I've also got a Motif that I added a few years back as the center channel - and another step towards my humble - yet beautiful sounding setup.

Which is what now brought me to the forum for research. My subwoofer is finally starting to give up the ghost... Literally, with ghost pops, the occasional buzz, and it's starting to sound a bit loose.

As with everything in my system, I bought once and bought right. I have an original Velodyne Foundation F-1000 (think back to who was in the White House when I bought this thing - hint - Read My Lips!). After 2+ decades, it's finally ready to retire. You can't see it in the picture, because it's tucked behind the love seat to the right.

SO! I'm now on the hunt for a new subwoofer - that will last me another 20 years.

Now of course there are a lot of choices, but I definitely want to match "the set" and complete the system with ML - so I'm trying to decide between one of the Dynamo's and stepping up a bit to the Grotto.

The room - it's odd shaped and acoustically it's unattractive - but it's my home and it is what it is. The listening area is about 12' by 15'. Due to the width and the gear, putting the sub in somewhere in the front is not feasible. It must go off to the side, or behind something.

The wireless would be really beneficial - but I question the clarity and timing of the wireless, and whether or not other devices will interfere. I think the Dynamo700w would be a great match for this.

The Grotto is compact and will fit where the old one sits, and I've already got the wiring and power - but the wireless would allow for better placement.

Comments, advice, opinions, and comic relief appreciated!

And now my biggest audio regret - replacing my Carver CT-17 pre-amp with this focokta Outlaw Audio processor. Oh how I miss that warm musical sound - and the sonic holography across the ML's was absolute bliss. Ah well, only another 15 years until I get to think about replacing it.

Cheers everyone!

Welcome aboard Brett. It seems someone forgot to use the flash. We can only see the Porsche! I subscribe to the same theory which is buying the best you can afford so that the upgraditis bug is postponed as much as possible. I suggest you go with a Depth I. It is 500 to 700 dollars more than the Grotto but I think you wil be happy for many years to come.

BrettSacto said:

The wireless would be really beneficial - but I question the clarity and timing of the wireless, and whether or not other devices will interfere.

Click to expand...

Clarity won't be an issue. Interference *shouldn't* be an issue.

There's definitely a delay associated with the transmitter/receiver. In a pure-analog setup, you can adjust subwoofer phase to compensate, but if you're using a pre-pro, manual or automatic adjustment of subwoofer delay is a much better solution.

I use a W3 to wirelessly connect an AVR to SVS sub in a family room HT setup, and it works flawlessly.

Thats some monster carvers

Thanks - more reading leads to more refinement

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I did a bit more reading and it brought me a few more questions, and a bit more clarity in my direction.

What I truly liked about my Velodyne when it came out was the fact that it was *TIGHT* and the servo control really made a difference in the clarity I got in my music vs. some of the other "big amp plus crossover" subs that were around in the early 90's.

My main concern is tight clarity in music. My system is a compromise for now, but until I get a dedicated HT room, I choose music over movies. Getting down to the last wall shaking thud in a shootout is secondary to hearing that perfectly blended bass tones in Pink Floyd's "Money" and I don't like the boomy sound in deep voices being carried through either.

So that, and the phase issues with a wireless setup lead me to eliminate the Dynamo from the selection - and now it's Grotto vs. Depth.


What is the difference between the Grotto and Grotto i? And the same for the Depth and Depth i?

Minimal, technical, or vast differences? Considering the price point, I may consider buying used - so the discontinued models are options.

Thanks in advance!

(oh yeah, tried to clear up the picture - I did use a flash but the room is kinda funny about sunlight!)

Which sub did you go with?

I the classified section, there's a fellow shipping a Depth i NIB for 1350. It uses three 8" drivers, equally opposed, and is only surpassed by the Descent i (10 " drivers) for performance. I imagine you would be very pleased with it. Up until 2 months ago, both of these subs were the very height of ML technology.

I agree. Great deals to be had on Depth i and Descent i right now, perfect for those of us that have long wanted one but couldn't justify the expenditure. I just upgraded from 2 Grottos to 2 Depth is, and I am very happy (16x22x8 room).

Well it took a few months (and a bit more time to convince the lady that the dead Velodyne needed to be replaced!). But I finally found a "new in box - to me" Grotto for the right price locally. A guy had it for a while and due to the economic downturn had never even opened the box. Or who knows, but when I opened it - it was in fact - in new condition.

I didn't realize just how LOOSE my "tight" Velodyne was! I think I got the perfect blend from this sub to match my Aerius speakers.

Friday night was spent with my woman snuggled up, my dog at my feet, a glass or two... (ok, 2 and a half!) of scotch - and Hell Freezes Over by The Eagles. Audio bliss...... Life's good!

Life is good! Scotch, a woman and music, it don't get much better than that!