Media Room Acoustic Assistance

I'm a newbie to ML world and need help in approving the sound in my media room. I can't complain about what I hear so far but I feel that it can be better. I have ML Vantage and they are about 2 feet away from the back and side walls. Looking for suggestions on which panels and placement. I have Helo 100s in the rear. Should I use diffusion panels in the rear.

Try bringing your vantage further from the front wall. Use jim power's flashlight tweak for tilt of the vantage,

GIK 244 behind each vantage may help as well.


J

I agree with jmschnur about moving the speakers away from the front wall, but it looks like there is already not much distance between the first row of seating and the plane of the speakers, so your listening would be extremely nearfield if you moved them.

Your speakers are toed in way too much. You can read about toe-in technique here: http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?125-Jim-Power-s-Toe-in-Technique

Also, there is a whole subforum on this forum dedicated to room acoustics and ML placement. I suggest you spend some time reading through those threads. Your room appears to have way too many reflective surfaces in the front of the room with minimal acoustic dampening, which will cause lots of early reflections and comb filtering, which in turn greatly reduces the acoustic performance of your speakers. Your speakers can sound much, much better than you realize.

James, as everyone else has stated, do some more reading here on the site, Bernard and Rich make good points,,,,toe-in is way too excessive given your broad seating arrangement and while your posters look nice in a theatrical sense they are more of a acoustical hindrance (adding to first-point-of-reflection woes).

definitely agree with everyone about your toe-in. Start with no toe-in at all and do some experimenting.. The flashlight trick works GREAT. When properly set up, the speakers should disappear and you should not be able to discern where the sound is coming from. You should be able to close your eyes and hear exactly where each musician is playing his/her instrument in front of you. This is called the "soundstage". Once you find that, you are golden... Do all of this in 2-channel mode, of course.

Ok, so first is correcting the toe in. I've read through a lot of the threads and so far have decided to explore the following:

1. Move speakers away from wall more. I may be able to spare 6 to 12 inches. LOL. Should I put curtains or an acoustic panel next to the screen behind the MLs? Hmmm, will have to test.
2. Install base traps behind ML. Should I put base traps in the back corner of the room? What should I be listening for to tell?
3. Remove posters and install acoustical panels on the side walls. Right now, I'm thinking 2 or 3 per wall. Not touching the ceiling as several threads commented that this insn't needed for MLs.

Thanks gents, I really appreciate the replies.

GIK acoustics as mentioned above - do have panels that have pics on them... they are more expensive... but... just a thought - depending on how far you want to go...

How big is that room?

Room is 20 x 12.5 x 8. The center channel is mounted on the wall. The Vista's are about 2 ft from the front wall and 1 ft from the side wall. I plan to get a better measurement tonight.

I took a look at the GIK 244 and saw that they also have complete room kits. I've entered my information in the adviser and now will wait a response. Buying the kit seems to be the right way to go. Just need to know what all I need. Really can't wait to get off the road and get this project underway.

Egads. Any chance of getting the center seat in the center of your mains? Get the speakers situated then do measurements and move the center seat accordingly so it is equidistant from each main speaker. Believe it or not ....several inches will make a diff. Awesome diagram btw.

Hey how big is the screen?

Thanks, I used OmniGraffle for Mac OS X. I agree, I can tell that the right side is more dominant but as a newbie the distance didn't dawn on me. So I'll center the seat and reset the distances in my processor.

One thought is to remove the front seats all together and put some type of small chase or table to just consume the space. I would then move the three rear seats up some. This will suck for guests who show up but that's not to often.

The screen size is 100 and I have an Epson projector. I'll get the model numbers when I get home. Need to post the specs of my system anyway. Soon to come.

With only three seats centered you you have more room to bring the front speakers forward.

GIF 244s behind each Vantage and perhaps something in the back behind the seating.

Then you can play with the position of the sub. Have you tried putting it on a side wall?


J

I had an Infinity sub on the right wall at one time and it was fine so I'll try relocating the sub to the right wall again once I move the front three chairs.

Here's what I was thinking. Please comment? I'm waiting on a call back from the GIK specialist. BTW, here are the distances that the MLs are from the wall:

Left speaker: 18 inches to side wall and 33 inches to back wall
Right speaker: 16 inches to side wall and 33 inches to back wall

How far from the wall should I go?

Here are my thoughts....

Sub: I would keep it away from a corner... It will be boomy for sure...more bass as well - however - I think it will not integrate as well with the panels in the corner... I would leave it somewhere similar to where you have it now (somewhere in between the fronts - a bit away from the corner)... If the sub is not substantial enough for you in this position - turn it up some for movies...turn it back for music... Guessing you have a processor that can do that on the fly...

Re: removing front 3.... The back 3 are on a riser aren't they? I think that probably creates an issue in that the middle of the panel should be about ear level... Anyway - If you play them now - and go back on the riser - or just stand up/sit down you probably notice a difference in the sound.... You can help this sound diff by adjusting the speakers 'rake' ... however, I think most everyone here seems to think that the panels in a vertical position seem to sound best...

My thoughts are based on music playback... tuning it in for that - and then adjusting for movies thru the processor....

BTW - is the 33" from back of speaker cabinet - or back of panel?

The 33" is to the back panel unfortunately. I had this room built two years ago and should have done some research first. Oh well, how much do you think I should pull them forward?

BTW, here is the recommendation from GIK:

I would recommend 2 Tri traps with our Scatter plates on them. There is no provision to mount so you'd have to rig a little shelf to get them up and out of the way of the outlets and other wall plates I see. These will help with bass control and corner 'honk' while not being totally absorbing which is good for the ML's rear wave.

On the side walls, I would use 2 of our 242 panels on each side. The posters would have to be removed. Not really much other space in the room though to work with given all of the doors in the rear portion.

The ceiling appears to be vaulted. Is it peaked at the center or just goes up from the right side? If centered, I would use some 244's straddling the peak of the ceiling.

If/when budget allows, I would also add some Grid Fusors on the angled sections of the ceiling (again assuming it vaults from both sides). This will help give the room a more spacious feel and scatter some of the direct reflections from that.

48" is what ML recommends . Try 40". Removing your rear seats and moving back the other three should help a lot .

I like my sub on a side wall but where you have yours may be fine.

GIK give good advice. Try a piece at a time after you move your speakers ,center your front three seats and remove the back three seats.


For a. 5.1 system an audyssey xt 32 prepro or receiver helps a lot. See j Fo's sticker in this forum.

Fix the room first before you go to different electronics.
J

Just heard from the misses that large boxes have arrived at my doorstep just in time for Xmas. GIK acoustic panels and two base traps. Can't wait to arrive home and start the installation. Any tips on mounting the panels on the wall? I will have to build a small shelf for the base traps to sit on as to avoid electrical outlets.