Driver/ Woofer Replacement - Non-ML Alternatives

I am curious as to what other alternatives we have to driver/ woofer replacement if we choose not to put the stock Martin Logan one's back in?

Has anyone tried this? If so what are some good drivers/woofers that mate well with the panel? Especially for Aeon i's or Vista's...

I always thought JL Audio, Scan speak or some Dynaudio woofer might do a better job in the bass department.. really trying to avoid getting a sub.. don't need something super loud.. just looking to add a bit more oomph without having to worry about blowing the stock drivers.

Currently, I have the Vistas Bi-Amped with my Sunfire (200x5) - 400 @ 4ohm and even though they sound clean I am worried about blowing them at loud spl's. I have the bass set to -10 on my pre- running as large (they sound better when set to large vs. small crossed over at 80 htz). Running a Sunfire Theatre Grand Amp Pre.

Just wanted to get your guy's opinions... thoughts... idea's... suggestions...

Martin Logan already uses some of the best dynamic drivers available. I believe Scanspeak is the OEM for Martin Logan.

Aeon i and Vista are both ported boxes (as opposed to sealed which is more forgiving), which makes finding a suitable replacement that much harder. But it can still be done: Measure the current woofer's outer flange diameter and mounting bolt circle diameter, along with the box volume and port diameter and length, and then plug the T/S parameters of the prospective woofer (Madisound is a good source) into an online box simulator like this one to see its response...

Dont know how your room is, but why are you so afraid of a subwoofer?
Sometimes, a subwoofer is something you definitely dont want, having tried one you definitely dont want to part with it.
I used my Aeon i for many years without a subwoofer. We used to live in a very small apartment, and instead of listening to the speakers I sometimes used a Stax Signature two electrostatic headphone set, using that I discovered that I have been missing half the world, the world under 100 hz.
Using a subwoofer will give you the full information of the music, every little touch of a bass guitar, drum and even low frequency information from the recording venue will appear clearly, and its very addictive.
Comparing measurements to what you hear will make you surprised. The ear is fooling you. A flat frequency curve will sound like you have no bass. Boosting the bass will bring everything in balance.
Now I live in a bigger apartment, and last year I bought a very tiny REL T3. It has an active 8" unit, and a 10" passive slave instead of a port. Actually its too small for the room, but I never ever play loud. Measuring the Aeon i without the subwoofer in my room shows a decline under 60 hz because of the open floor plan in the apartment, with the sub its totally flat to 30 hz.
The Aeon i is NOT filtered, they run fullrange like before, the REL taps into the speaker level signal and adds weight in the bottom.
Even very expensive speakers benefit from a subwoofer since it can be placed where the room gain is highest, the speakers cannot. The trick is to adjust the subwoofer, rotate it, find the right spot, and dial it in so you cannot hear it, then it will melt together with the main speakers.
For a bit larger rooms, two smaller, cheaper subwoofers will outperform one bigger and more expensive when it comes to bass coverage in the room.

I really appreciate all your replies. Some great idea's and suggestions!

Here is what I tried/ learned by changing the drivers/ woofers on my Aeon i's:

1) JBL 8' driver from S-38 - Not good at all; bass was weak, too much mid bleeding into the panel (would not recommend this)

2) Kicker 8" Kicker Comp VR - Just raw bass, much more bass than JBL but similar bleed into the mids too much and just did not sound right - I didn't realize that this sub had a range of 32htz to 500htz (not a good blend at all with the panels)

3) JL Audio W3 - Very similar to stock Martin Logan Drivers - mids were extremely clean and blended in very well with the panels - bass was also similar to stock drivers - just didn't go as low as the stock drivers - found out by blowing the JL!

4) Dyton Audio RSS210HO - This thing was simply amazing - blew everything I tried out of the water - Played clean, louder, deeper, lower, integrated well with the panels, looks like the drivers on my Vista's - The whole house was shaking with these 8 inch subs and they played so clean and no distortion, I put my ear to the woofer and you don't ever hear is moving air - the voice coil was almost dead silent even at extreme excursion - I'm talking this thing moving 2-4 inches out - no problem at all - could not blow this sub up Im tellin you guy's this is the driver to get if you are looking for low distortion - more spl's in bass and it's clean - like JL clean...

I'm not trying to take business away from Martin Logan. I am not affiliated with Dayton Audio or Parts Express - just an enthusiast who likes to mess around and see what is possibilities we have.

My premise was I know the panels can play really loud with out any distortion - the drivers/ woofers always give out (at loud volumes running full range). I was looking for a simple solution without having to add sub's and this is it.

Thanks for sharing the story, and glad it worked well for you.

There are indeed some good bargains out there, and that Dayton seems to do the trick for you. Looking at the specs and reading some reviews, it does seem to go higher than a "subwoofer" driver might be expected to. total moving mass of the driver is reasonable as well, leading to decent transients in the mid-bass.
You should have no problem with power there

I still believe separate subs are a better overall solution, but if you can't place them correctly, then other paths need to be explored. Cheers.

JonFo, I definitely agree with you that separate subs will be better. I really want to get one of those JL Fathom subs, hearing good things about them.

What do you guy's think of this:

Get some JL Audio W7 (10" or 12") put them into 2 separate sealed boxes and power them with a power amp thats stable down to 1 or 0 ohms? This would be much cheaper than say getting even on 10 inch JL Fathom. I think JL uses the same car subwoofers for their home audio subs.

I have the Aeon's set up in my bedroom (15"x15") which is why I'm a bit conscious about space. The Dayton Audios are more than sufficient for my bedroom setup. I suppose as you move into a bigger room subs will be needed to fill the larger area.

Why dont you just buy an active subwoofer? Its much easier and you are rid of all the hassle of trying out things blindfolded....
An active subwoofer has an internal amp with gain control, crossover, phase control, line level inn and many also got high level inn/out, some even got room correction software, like the XTZ subwoofer.

Toppgunn said:

4) Dayton Audio RSS210HO - This thing was simply amazing - blew everything I tried out of the water - Played clean, louder, deeper, lower, integrated well with the panels, looks like the drivers on my Vista's - The whole house was shaking with these 8 inch subs and they played so clean and no distortion, I put my ear to the woofer and you don't ever hear is moving air - the voice coil was almost dead silent even at extreme excursion - I'm talking this thing moving 2-4 inches out - no problem at all - could not blow this sub up Im tellin you guy's this is the driver to get if you are looking for low distortion - more spl's in bass and it's clean - like JL clean...

Click to expand...

I'm surprised that you found the Dayton to have 'more SPL's' as it has a sensitivity of only 82dB/1W compared with the Aeon's approx 89dB.
If you added an active xo for only the bass, you could bypass the stock passive XO to the woofer and adjust its level to better match the ESL.