Paul Ryan

As most of you know, I will vote for the incumbents. And frankly, my vote doesn't matter since I live in Wyoming. I love the electoral college that renders the vast majority of our popular vote mute.

My initial thought is that the choice is good and will further the crystallize the debate about the future this Country should pursue in tax policies, role of government, and other related issues.

For the first time in a while, the electorate will have a clear choice given the disparate / competing views that exist between the two parties.

As always, please keep the discussion civil, factual, and on point.

GG

I do not agree with Ryan's philosophy nor the concept of wanting an "all American family" given by Romney as a criterion.
However it would be easy for the Democrats to overreach on the topic of the budget.

We do need to control entitlement costs and and spending in general.so it will be important for democrats to offer reasonable ways together form here to there in terms of getting the bills paid.

Just saying Ryan's path is unfair is not enough.

For example raising SS retirement to 70 gradually might be a good start along with means testing for SS and then rational restructuring of the tax code and clear target to decrease defense spending.


J

Much more research that I need to do but he apparently stated the following regarding his core values to resolve our issues.

A return to religion and nature.

I don't quite know what that means.

GG

Creationism?


J

Gordon Gray said:

Much more research that I need to do but he apparently stated the following regarding his core values to resolve our issues.

A return to religion and nature.

I don't quite know what that means.

GG

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What right does anyone have to say that anyone should have to "return to religion"? Religion should be a personal decision/choice and should have nothing to do with political agenda or government.

slowGEEZR said:

What right does anyone have to say that anyone should have to "return to religion"? Religion should be a personal decision/choice and should have nothing to do with political agenda or government.

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Amen.

Those politicians who insist that God is on their side are sickening to me. It is abhorrent that others would seek to impose their personal religious beliefs / way of life on others. Talk about forgetting what America is all about...

A non starter for me.

PR would apparently allow abortion only if the mother's life is in danger.

One wonders what he would tell his daughter if she was raped or was a victim of incest.

What does this say about his ability to have compassion on other issues? His moral compass?

I have nothing against religion per se as long as it is practiced / used within the proper context.

GG

Len44 said:

Amen.

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Len....an 'expression of faith' ...how dare you !!

Talk about forgetting what America is all about...

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I don't think those politicaians forgot for one moment........'greed' !!! look no furhter than the dollar bill......"in God we Trust" !!

twich54 said:

Len....an 'expression of faith' ...how dare you !!

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Thought you might catch -- and appreciate -- the little bit of word-play.

I have long been puzzled why it is that so many republicans believe that democrats are anti-religion, against high moral character, and in favor of abortion, among other things. I just shake my head at the crazy assumptions some people make regarding others.

So here is what I am hearing.

MR won't release his previous 10 years of tax returns (even though his farther did and apparently required for most cabinet position nominees) because it will give the Obama folks something to scrutinize and allegedly distort. Most folks, including some Republicans as well as the public, think that it is appropriate to do so.

MR won't release his specific economic plans, keeping the GWB tax cuts in place because, see the above.

PR advocates closing "loopholes" in the tax code, but won't say what loopholes he will close and apparently, hasn't taken a position regarding the impacts of closing the loopholes. Read, will it help reduce our deficit"?.

And yes Len, we all know that folks that don't subscribe to a particular religion have no moral character.

GG

If we elect Romney, then Americans really are idiots. I mean, come on. A man with that much money, with that many financial red flags (Swiss and Cayman bank accounts, unrealistic amounts of money in his IRA, etc), who refuses to release his tax returns (openly ignoring the example set by his own father and almost every presidential candidate since then), and he is willing to take heat from both democrats and republicans to stand his ground on this issue! Does anyone really think there is not some serious smoking guns in those returns? I mean, let's face it. McCain saw the returns and for some reason decided Sarah Palin was a better choice for V.P. that pretty much says it all right there. As for Ryan, he seems like the typical republican hate-mongerer from his voting record. Anti-gay, Anti-women's right, Anti-seniors rights, etc.

Gordon Gray said:

Much more research that I need to do but he apparently stated the following regarding his core values to resolve our issues.

A return to religion and nature.

I don't quite know what that means.

GG

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Gordon- I would imagine that, in the manner in which he uses it, it is similiar to the same reference as in beginning of the Declaration of Independence.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

I tried finding a reference to Paul Ryan and "religion and nature", and could only find his quotes referencing God and nature, but I didn't look for very long. There is a difference in my opinion. Thomas Jefferson would reference God in his words, but rarely religion. I myself believe in God, but don't consider myself to by a very religious person. The term nature is used to mean the natural sense of right and wrong that we all have. Do you need really need God or Government to tell you that it is bad to go into a movie theater and start killing as many people as possible? My guess is that in Paul's case, his 'core values' approach, using religion (or God) and nature, is the belief in going back to towards stronger individual rights over that of a stronger central government.

Kevin.

Thanks for your reasoned response. Appreciate your perspective.

Gordon

It would be great if the campaign would provide a reasoned debate on these issues. I fear this will not happen.

The question of who should pay for fire, police, roads , education etc is important .


Where do private rights and public safety diverge? Traffic lights? Clean drinking water, NSA phone taps etc.

Should there be a safety net? If so how high? If not what do you do about the consequences?

Medicaid falls under this one.


Common resources for common good versus individual pursuits is a complex subject.


I think Rep. Ryan has gone far too far in his proposed budget to the side of private vs pooled resource solutions. Never-the-less there is lots of room for good debate.




I suspect reasonable individuals would find some common ground.


This summer the campaigns will probably not come close.


J

Like Vice-President Biden said, "What's 'gutsy' about more tax breaks for the rich?"

Hi Paul,
I used to think the electoral college was an anachronism until I did some research on the mathematics of elections (I'm a math prof). It turns out that the electoral college allows voters in small states to have "power" in the voting system. Power is defined as the ability to be pivotal in an election (casting the vote that turns a losing coalition into a winning coalition). Without the electoral college, small states (and rural counties of all states) would have no power in our voting system. If you would like more details on power in voting systems, let me know.
Tom

538 has some good essays on this subject.


J

Well, Gordon. I think we learned a lot about Paul Ryan and his selection by Mitt after the convention speech last night. How bad is it? Well, when you are a staunch conservative, and even FOX NEWS calls you a liar, then you know it is bad.

On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech.

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I had read about this on other news sources, but Fox News reporting this distortion!!!!

Who would have thunk.

The biggest lie out there IMO, which the Republicans continue to proffer as fact, is Obama allegedly dropping the work requirement for welfare.

Astounding.

Gordon

The fact-checkers are having a field day with about 99% of Ryan's claims! And since he voted for most of the programs he's now denigrating, can we all say HYPOCRITE?!