System #435 (CLX, Descent i)

[thazeldean]

1. Name - Tony
2. Location - Mackay, Queensland, Australia
3. ML Model - CLX Art Dark Cherry, matching Descent i's and Stage
4. Purchased - CLX's and one Descent i 2011, Stage 2011, Second Descent i 2012
5. Mods - None
6. Associated electronics
2 channel audio
Clearaudio Master Reference turntable
SME Series V tonearm
Koetsu Azule cartridge
Graham Phantom Supreme tonearm
Benz LPS MR cartridge
Manley Steelhead phone stage
Nordost Tyr phono cable
Shanling CD-T2000 CD player
Allnic L-3000 line stage preamplifier
Bob Carver Black Beauty monoblocks power amps
Cables - Cardas golden reference interconnects and most speaker cables
Cardas quadlink subwoofer cables
Surround sound
Oppo BDP95 Blu ray player
Panasonic Blu Ray recorder
Anthem Statement D2v surround sound processor
Martin Logan Stage centre channel
Krell S 150 centre channel
Apogee Centaur Major rear speakers
McCormack DNA2 rear channel amplifier
7. Comments - none
8. Photo

[TomDac]

posting more pics for Tony

[TomDac]

for Tony...

[Ron]

Welcome Tony. Fantastic equipment you have there. Great choice in speakers.

[topofroc]

Just curious - Do you notice any tonal shifts in your soundstage with the mixed usage of tube and solidstate amplification?

[thazeldean]

Welcome Tony. Fantastic equipment you have there. Great choice in speakers.

Thanks Ron, I am very happy with it. I looked at your photos and noticed you are running the Macintosh 601's. A pair of these came up for sale on the used market in Australia before I brought the Black Beauties. I was too late to get them so was wondering how you have found them with the CLX's?

Tony

[User211]

I'd have thought the Apogees rather different in nature to the CLXs, though I have never heard Apogees with dynamic drive units. Does the setup work well in surround mode? Or is another pair of CLXs on the cards? As an Apogee owner, you might enjoy this, if you haven't seen it already.

Fantastic system, BTW. Bob Carver amps - dead cool.

[thazeldean]

Just curious - Do you notice any tonal shifts in your soundstage with the mixed usage of tube and solidstate amplification?

Hello topofroc, I will have to get back to you on this. The Anthem D2v only arrived last week and I spent a fair bit of time setting it up using the ARC via my laptop, so I haven't really had time to listen properly. All the amplifiers in the two channel setup are tube as I don't route via the Anthem for two channel music listening. I have set it up so that all sources route through the Allnic preamp. I use balanced interconnects from the Anthem to the Allnic then single ended interconnects to the Black Beauties for the front two channels when using the home theatre. I set the volume control on the Allnic at 12 o'clock so that it is easy to repeat when watching movies and I can use the Anthem for master volume control. I use balanced interconnects from the CD player to the Allnic preamp for stereo music from CD's. When listening to vinyl I use single ended interconnects from the Manley Steelhead to the Allnic preamp. The Allnic preamp only has two sets of balanced inputs. The Black Beauties only accept single ended interconnects so I use RCA connections from the Allnic to them. I have wired it up this way to avoid combining solid state with tube for music and so that I don't have to disconnect and reconnect cables to the Black Beauties when changing from HT to two channel music. When watching movies there is solid state amplification to the centre channel and the surrounds (rears) but I really haven't had the system set up long enough to give any views on tonal shifting. I listened to Neil Diamond on Blu Ray last Saturday night and it blew me away but this may be new gear syndrome. We all have it when a new piece of equipment is introduced to our system. I will try and get back to you with more information when I have had more time to evaluate the system.
Tony.

[thazeldean]

Hi 211,

Nice to get a comment from the UK. My older brother lives over there and we hope to visit next year. I guess some history will help answer your question. I have had the Apogees since 1992 and they have been fantastic speakers. A few years ago my sister-in-law visited with her young children and there was some water spilled on the floor and the woofer enclosure on one of the Apogees got wet and swelled at the bottom joint. At the time I was devastated and I wanted to get them repaired and spoke to Graz as he lives in Noosa Queensland and could do the repairs. The insurance company decided to pay me out for the Apogees and as the sound was not compromised I kept them and they still haven't been repaired. I used the money to partially fund the purchase of the CLX's. Until recently (this year) I have always used SS amplification. In fact I have never heard the Apogees with tubes although you are probably surprised looking at my system now. I have used McCormack amplification also since 1992 starting with an ALD 1and a DNA 1. I traded the DNA 1on the DNA 2. I had the ALD1 upgraded by Smc Audio which required me to send it to Kris Jeter and Steve McCormack in California. I also purchased a second hand DNA2 LAE from a dealer in LA and begged Kris Jeter to do the upgrades on this amp which he had stopped doing some years ago. This DNA2 LAE is in the photo of the Apogees and it is a sweet sounding and powerful amplifier and has many upgrades that no other DNA 2 on the planet has had, so it is a little special. When it arrived back at my house my existing DNA 2 died (The luck of the Irish I have), so it is currently with Kris getting repaired and the same upgrade. While all this was happening I was using a Plinius phono stage, an Aura turntable, a Graham 1.5 T arm and a Benz Micro Ruby 2 cartridge. I was looking on Audiogon and saw the Clearaudio TT for sale. I emailed the seller and we negotiated a deal for the turntable and the upgrade bug started. I purchased the Graham Phantom II and a Koetsu Urushi Wajima cartridge and was then unhappy with the Plinius. I was advised to try the Manley Steelhead and find it a great phono stage and again I brought it unheard from Audiogon. A friend visited and his daughter decided to try running the turntable backwards by hand with the cartridge on the platter. This effectively ripped the diamond from the cantiliever. Insurance paid out and I brought the Koetsu Azule, again on Audiogon and I communicated with the person who sold me this and he suggested the Allnic preamp which I also purchased from him second hand. I have always found the Apogees very revealing, alot of air in the treble and a fantastic soundstage well outside the boundary of the speakers, but a little edgy or electronic sounding, emphasising sibilance which I am acutely aware of and find particularly annoying. This is probably an amplification problem but I won't know until I try them with the Black Beauties. My younger brother has had Acoustats for 20 years and they are a sweet sounding speaker. I flew to Sydney to compare Maggies 3.6's with the CLX's and fell in love with the CLX's and hence they ended up in my system. By then I wanted to try valve power and was tossing up between AR, McIntosh and CJ. To get around 250 watts power I was looking around $25,000 to $35,000 for these amps in Australia. I saw an ad in TAS for the Black Beauties and decided to take a chance and to be honest I am mightily impressed. Vocals are simply stunning and as lifelike as I have ever heard from my system. During this whole period my significant other half has looked on with passive amazement and a little empathy at my undoubted madness. She has suggested, as another member on this site has, that she requires a diamond retip soon so another pair of CLX's won't happen any time soon. I hope this answers your question. The Anthem amp has only been in the system for a week and as I work away from home I haven't had alot of time to listen critically.
Tony.

[User211]

" I have always found the Apogees very revealing, alot of air in the treble and a fantastic soundstage well outside the boundary of the speakers, but a little edgy or electronic sounding, emphasising sibilance which I am acutely aware of and find particularly annoying. This is probably an amplification problem but I won't know until I try them with the Black Beauties."

Yeah the tube monos will probably help. But TBH replacing the ribbons and updating the x-overs will probably help a lot too.

I don't have this problem with the KLM5 MRTs in my speakers. However, I have spent a lot of time with the UK installer tweaking the x-overs to get the speakers sounding dead right with my kit - not something many people have the opportunity to do. The result is stunning - but I have an unfair advantage.

Also I really do think the Apogee bass panel is a work of pure magic. The speed/slam/articulation and resolution of that transducer is surely still close state of the art. Well I think so, anyway. Until I hear things like Trios and basshorns, that is. Then reality strikes Whilst even those don't have the speed of the Apogee, they are still damned fine and notably bloody impressive.

[Ron]

Thanks Ron, I am very happy with it. I looked at your photos and noticed you are running the Macintosh 601's. A pair of these came up for sale on the used market in Australia before I brought the Black Beauties. I was too late to get them so was wondering how you have found them with the CLX's?

Tony

I am totally satisfied. The amps have a lot of punch. The base is deep and controlled. The amps have a warm sound to them, unlike most solid state amps. Almost tube like which goes very well with the articulate detailed sound of the CLX speaker. I may be partial to McIntosh though. Also just added a new picture to the flickr account. The McIntosh MVP881 Blu Ray Player.

[thazeldean]

211,
I wish I had the opportunity to hear a full range Apogee but I never did so I take your word for it. I would love to hear one. I will be moving to Brisbane in a couple of years and Graz is close so I will take my Centaurs for repair and upgrade. I may also look for a second hand pair of Scintillas or similar to get done up. In the meantime the CLX's are a mighty fine speaker and I won't ever part with them. As mine have broken in the soundstage has expanded and is now well outside the confines of the speaker. With the Black Beauties, human voice is as real as I have ever heard. I still believe that you have to get voices right to create the illusion or the rest is insignificant in comparison. I wish I was able to have a closer relationship with a dealer to assist with purchase decisions but Mackay is 600 miles from the nearest dealer so I often have to purchase a product to listen. One day!!! As John Lennon said - 'life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans' or something like that. Anyway for now I am extremely impressed with the ML's. Thanks for the feedback and I will keep you informed of my impressions of the HT system later.