I need help

The number 1 one killer of teenagers is car crashes

Around 6,000 teenage drivers are killed in auto accidents each year.

Teen Drivers ages 16 to 19 have death rates four times that of a driver age 25-29 years of age.

NEW TEEN CAR ACCIDENT DATA: Complied 2005, 2007 posted

• Automobile accidents are the top killer among teenagers
• Drivers between the ages of 15 and 20 cause over $40 billion in damages per the NHSTA
• In 2005, 23% of teenagers killed were under the influence of drugs or alcohol
• You’re more likely to get in an accident at 16 than at any other age
• Accident rates for 16 to 19 year olds is higher at those ages than any other group
• Teens are 3 times more likely to get in an accident after 9:00pm daily
• Teens are more likely to be par of an accident when they have passengers than without
• Males between 16 and 19 are 1.5 times more likely to be involved in a fatal crash than females within the same age group.
• Teens have the lowest use of seat belt rate

maybe we should ban cars they kill a lot more teenagers than children with guns , its a complicated issue and I don't see anyone trying to blame cars . whether its guns, cars, drugs children are going to find ways to kill themselves and others.

Lets not blame the gun or car but peoples decisions and inexperience and or the seemingly immortality you feel when young.

User211 said:

What needs to happen is for the good old US of A to make gun possession totally illegal. Apart from those cases where gun possession is necessary.

That simple.

It ain't the wild west no more.

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Well let me tell you that you know that in your country your not safe anymore and you are held to ransom by all the crooks and the gangsters. People in Britain are now powerless to the thugs after the recent upsurge in gun ownership by the unsavory characters who have came into possession. This is mostly due to the internet and people replacing firing pins and doing other kinds of work.

Here in the WildWest I can walk down the street with my handgun and shoot anyone who would try mug me or threaten the life of my family. If anyone comes to my home I will put a large hole in that individual if he is A: Threatening my life and safety of my family and B: Not standing near my audio equipment

Back to the topic at hand............... I think kids are seeking attention because the parents don't care about them and in today's age they will take extreme measures to get it. Also no guns no killing ? True to a certain extent as we should have strict laws on gun storage so we can hold an individual owner to be more responsible for their gun being misused

I was just about to respond with a post that was a mixture of Timm's and Repmans, but I guess they stole my thunder. I was thinking more about the number of HS and college aged kids that die in alcohol related vehicle deaths. But would the solution be to make it even harder for responsible adults to purchase and consume alcohol?

Another thing that I wonder is wether or not some of these school shootings would have occured years ago before the privacy rights and the protection of individual rights, especially as pertains to kids, had become so strong. It seems that in many circumstances there was adequate warnings that these kids weren't really all that 'right' in the head. Perhaps years ago they would have been stopped before something tragic would have occured? I'm not really for certain about that, perhaps I'm wrong. The same goes with adults. You read about what someone did in the newspaper and it will mention their previous rap sheet, and I'm amazed that they were already allowed to roam freely among law abiding citizens. They need to start making room in prison for violent criminals and quit locking up people because of a bag of weed. ---- Just my 2 cents.

User211 said:

Believe me when I say we over here in Britain, for the most part, think your gun laws are absolutely mad.

No offense is intended by this - and it doesn't affect us. But it is the truth.

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Britain and Australia have similar gun laws. For the most part, most Australians think US gun laws are totally mad as well.

That being the case - does it solve any problems? Does it reduce gun crime? Absolutely not.

I've always said - whatever the laws - upholding them and commanding respect for them is what reduces crime. Over here, we have a whole heap of left-wing judges that just release criminals back into the community because of "first offence" or "shown remorse" or some other equally abhorrent BS reason.

"Known to police" is a common phrase when someone is caught? Well WTF are they doing on the streets committing crime if they are damn well known to police?????? Well - that's the way it is.

Kevin said:

They need to start making room in prison for violent criminals and quit locking up people because of a bag of weed. ---- Just my 2 cents.

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Yes they certainly do!

amey01 said:

"Known to police" is a common phrase when someone is caught? Well WTF are they doing on the streets committing crime if they are damn well known to police?????? Well - that's the way it is.

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that's why so many 'lil o ladys' in Florida are packin heat !

Kevin said:

They need to start making room in prison for violent criminals

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I'd rather see more room made in the crematorium !

repman said:

The number 1 one killer of teenagers is car crashes

Around 6,000 teenage drivers are killed in auto accidents each year.

Teen Drivers ages 16 to 19 have death rates four times that of a driver age 25-29 years of age.

NEW TEEN CAR ACCIDENT DATA: Complied 2005, 2007 posted

• Automobile accidents are the top killer among teenagers
• Drivers between the ages of 15 and 20 cause over $40 billion in damages per the NHSTA
• In 2005, 23% of teenagers killed were under the influence of drugs or alcohol
• You’re more likely to get in an accident at 16 than at any other age
• Accident rates for 16 to 19 year olds is higher at those ages than any other group
• Teens are 3 times more likely to get in an accident after 9:00pm daily
• Teens are more likely to be par of an accident when they have passengers than without
• Males between 16 and 19 are 1.5 times more likely to be involved in a fatal crash than females within the same age group.
• Teens have the lowest use of seat belt rate

maybe we should ban cars they kill a lot more teenagers than children with guns , its a complicated issue and I don't see anyone trying to blame cars . whether its guns, cars, drugs children are going to find ways to kill themselves and others.

Lets not blame the gun or car but peoples decisions and inexperience and or the seemingly immortality you feel when young.

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No that's just it - I do blame guns for SOME of the problems. In my post I compared a gun to other weapons that were intended to be used as weapons. I'm not making comparisons to everything else in the world that was not designed to be a weapon but can certainly be used as one (whether intended or not). It's two different things.

Am I a gun hating liberal? Not at all. I own one, hunted a lot when I was younger and don't feel that the freedom to own a gun should be taken away from us. That said, and if we're to get back on track with Gordon's original post, I simply don't view guns in the same light as (almost) any other weapon that ends up in the hands of a reckless, disturbed, or otherwise wrong-headed individual. It all comes back to respect for the weapon, parental control, and accountablility. And would a few more on-point PSAs really be such a bad thing? Really? Given that we can all write whatever the hell we want in this forum and none of it will change the attitudes of incompetent parents and/or role-models - until the right laws are passed, why not at least make an effort to educate?

Rep,

I understand your point but those kids in Cleveland weren't killed in an automobile accident. I'm really trying to understand the relevance of your position.

Seems to me, with all due respect, like an "apples and oranges" perspective without confronting the issue that caused these deaths to occur. That issue being this individual got a gun from somewhere, walked into a cafeteria, and killed three high school students.

Would these three kids still be alive today if TJ didn't have access to a gun? I strongly suspect the answer would be yes.

Would you agree with that hypothetical?

Gordon

repman said:

maybe we should ban cars they kill a lot more teenagers than children with guns , its a complicated issue and I don't see anyone trying to blame cars . whether its guns, cars, drugs children are going to find ways to kill themselves and others.

Lets not blame the gun or car but peoples decisions and inexperience and or the seemingly immortality you feel when young.

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Or maybe, using your logic, we should just give all teenagers guns. That way they can defend themselves when some punk like this starts shooting at them. Since guns aren't the problem, why not give them to all teenagers? Obviously, this is really dumb logic. If you take away the right to drive from teenagers, you would reduce teen deaths. Likewise, if you take away their right to possess a gun, you will reduce death by gun violence and accidental shootings. But you have to have some way to enforce that ban, and I think holding the parents legally accountable is the only way.

Gordon Gray said:

Rep,

I understand your point but those kids in Cleveland weren't killed in an automobile accident. I'm really trying to understand the relevance of your position.

Seems to me, with all due respect, like an "apples and oranges" perspective without confronting the issue that caused these deaths to occur. That issue being this individual got a gun from somewhere, walked into a cafeteria, and killed three high school students.

Would these three kids still be alive today if TJ didn't have access to a gun? I strongly suspect the answer would be yes.

Would you agree with that hypothetical?

Gordon

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Gordon I think you are spot on I agree with you.

I stated in an earlier post that I think it is the responsibility of parents to keep the firearms locked up and safe.

My car reference was really only to show while tragic, gun incidents pale in comparison to how many young people we lose every year in vehicles.

I also think that we are dealing with a pretty disturbed individual to actually be able to shoot fellow classmates.

I also think it is quite sad that three high school students were needlessly killed. However, we can write all the gun laws we want, unfortunately, the only ones who obey them are the ones who don't need the laws to do what is right in the first place. From what I read, it hasn't come out yet how TJ acquired the gun. But Ohio law certainly doesn't allow a high schooler to bring a weapon to school. Here you had a troubled teen with a troubled family life, and in my opinion, that was the root of the problem, the gun was only used to 'solve' the problem. Nothing is to say that if he didn't have a gun he couldn't have made a pipe bomb with materials found every day. Who knows?? Timothy McVeigh was obviously a troubled individual and he found a way to kill far more innocent people with agricultural supplies.

I guess what my point would be, is that senseless people commit senseless acts of violence. How do you make sure people grow up with the morals and smarts to not commit such acts? If you can't, do you instead take away or greatly curb the use of something that many millions of law abiding and responsible people enjoy without causing trouble?

I see some things in the US as changing for the better but still other things changing for the worse. But it appears as though more and more, I'm being asked to give up something or contribute something because others have made bad decisions and haven't acted responsibly. Will my guns be next? If it takes a village, do I really need to change my enjoyments because of the village idiots??

Kevin said:

If it takes a village, do I really need to change my enjoyments because of the village idiots??

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Quote of the day! I got a good snicker out of that one, Kevin.

Rep, thanks for the reply.

Kevin, I am not asking you or any other law abiding citizen who owns, uses, and stores guns in a responsible matter to relinquish that right.

However, this most recent incident again underscores a significant (in my mind) issue that needs to be addressed in a responsible, consensus building manner (assuming that is at all possible in this current environment) to preclude this from hopefully happening again.

To hide our heads in the proverbial sand and not be pro-active only ensures that these tragedies will continue to occur.

Gordon

Kevin said:

From what I read, it hasn't come out yet how TJ acquired the gun.

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Actually, it has:

The Associated Press reported Wednesday that Lane stole the gun, a Ruger .22-caliber Mark III target pistol, from an uncle who legally purchased the weapon in August 2010 from a gun shop in Mentor, Ohio. Lane’s grandparents noticed the gun missing this week from a barn they owned.

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Also, supporting my idea that we should be holding adults strictly accountable for the criminal acts committed by juveniles who obtain their firearms:

According to a 2000 study by the US Secret Service, 65 percent of school shootings up to that point involved a gun obtained from the juvenile shooter’s home or that of a close relative.

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According to this article, twenty-eight States have laws holding adults liable when children have access to their firearms. Unfortunately, Ohio isn't one of them.

Source: Why gun owner in Ohio school shooting won't be held accountable

Valid points Rich, I concur. Also. as stated previous this young lads home life was far from ideal, his father apparently was not the model citizen.

While I have felt for years communication is one of if not the biggest 'World' problem out there, I have for years (being married to a high school level teacher) realized the lack of the 'family unit' in so many households is without question one this country's biggest concerns.

Thanks Rich. Confirmed my suspicions.

Sounds like the other 22 states need to pass similar legislation. I wonder if there would be any opposition to a well written law but that would be a good start.

Another idea would be to not allow purchase of a firearm at any gun show until the individual passes the normal, protocol background checks currently in place in many states.

Gordon