I need help

to understand two incidents that have occurred in the last week.

My upfront apologies to Dave and others who believe in the Second Amendment and who are responsible citizens.

Here's my problem that is perhaps shared by others.

How can I reconcile the fact that an eight year old girl was shot attending school, perhaps fatally, as a result of a nine year boy who had a gun, in his backpack, that inadvertently went off?

How can I reconcile the fact that another shooting occurred, this time at a high school outside of Cleveland, which has left one student dead and four others in a grave and / or serious condition?

I fully understand that no politician will take on the NRA because of the fear and influence this organization can bring to the political forum.

Any reasonable response would be most appreciated.

I need help.

Gordon

I don't think they have to take on the NRA. I just think States need to enact laws holding parents criminally responsible when their minor children get ahold of their firearms and hurt someone. And then actually enforce it. Send a few dads and moms to prison for their children's actions, and then maybe people will start treating their firearms a little more securely.

yep... start with holding the parents/gaurdians accountable.

Perhaps also throw in a number of well-coordinated "scared straight" PSAs at school, on TV, as lead-ins to movies, Youtube ads, etc. Make sure perspective offenders (whether accidental of not) are exposed to the tragic, destructive results of gun play.

Funny how we get back to a point made in another thread... "what if the tables were turned?" That message needs to be driven home... like a bullet.

I agree. The parents should be held accountable, plain and simple!

But in my opinion, changing the gun laws is not going to fix the issue.

Thanks guys. Sage input and probably the only action that may help prevent these tragedies in the future.

GG

Perhaps we need to monitor the violent Video games that desensitize children , I am pretty sure the most popular games out are shooting , killing games.

I am not for censorship but parents should monitor what kind of entertainment that fills their children's minds and also lock up the Guns !!

repman said:

Perhaps we need to monitor the violent Video games that desensitize children , I am pretty sure the most popular games out are shooting , killing games.

I am not for censorship but parents should monitor what kind of entertainment fills their children's minds and also lock up the Guns !!

Click to expand...

Larry I'm in total agreement here and Gordon as a life long reponsible gun owner these situations sicken me as well.

I have preached for years that there are far to many parents that should never have been. Being married to a teacher (now retired) for the past 36 years has opened my eyes to so much I don't know where to begin but I continue to believe being held accountable for ones actions.

What needs to happen is for the good old US of A to make gun possession totally illegal. Apart from those cases where gun possession is necessary.

That simple.

It ain't the wild west no more.

User211 said:

What needs to happen is for the good old US of A to make gun possession totally illegal. Apart from those cases where gun possession is necessary.

That simple.

It ain't the wild west no more.

Click to expand...

I don't have a gun, don't have any desire to have a gun, and even I think that is stupid. You're not going to solve any problems by taking guns away from people.

User211 said:

What needs to happen is for the good old US of A to make gun possession totally illegal. Apart from those cases where gun possession is necessary.

That simple.

It ain't the wild west no more.

Click to expand...

Not only a bad idea but one that will never happen! Many people own guns for> personnel protection , hunting, skeet & Trap shooting , shooting competition (pistol and Rifle)

I know you were just throwing that out there as a joke because as you may or not know it is #2 in our Bill of Rights

Believe me when I say we over here in Britain, for the most part, think your gun laws are absolutely mad.

No offense is intended by this - and it doesn't affect us. But it is the truth.

User211 said:

Believe me when I say we over here in Britain, for the most part, think your gun laws are absolutely mad.

No offense is intended by this - and it doesn't affect us. But it is the truth.

Click to expand...

our gun laws were conceived because of ...........guess who !!!! LOL !!!

User211 said:

Believe me when I say we over here in Britain, for the most part, think your gun laws are absolutely mad.

No offense is intended by this - and it doesn't affect us. But it is the truth.

Click to expand...

Understood, Justin. Similarly, we over here think the continuation of your (now mostly symbolic) monarchy is mad. But I suspect we will have our guns long after you have done away with your royalty.

Touche, Rich - but your media seems mad over them esp. the recent wedding!

Tis a good money making business.

User211 said:

What needs to happen is for the good old US of A to make gun possession totally illegal. Apart from those cases where gun possession is necessary.

That simple.

It ain't the wild west no more.

Click to expand...

Oh man! You're gonna really hear it now...

Len44 said:

Oh man! You're gonna really hear it now...

Click to expand...

Oh, crap! It's already happening!

While a gun might be a very easy weapon to use to commit murder, a demented individual doesn't necessarily need one. Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman are proof of that. Cars in the hands of stupid individuals, I'm guessing, kill more innocent individuals every year than do guns, but no one would suggest taking them away from those who operate them responsibly. Just this morning I made my commute in a pouring rain while being passed by people driving way too fast for the conditions. Guns don't scare me, but irresponsible people do. I have a closet with shotguns, rifles and pistols for hunting, sport and defense. Some might not agree with it, but I sleep well. Everyone who mentioned parenting as the chief problem is absolutely correct. Bad parenting contributes to most of our societies ills. My daughter always has a few bad kids in her class every year, when you see the parents you can always tell why they behave the way they do. The worst part is, the problem will continue to get worse. Children of bad parents today will probably become bad parents themselves one day, and the cycle with few exceptions usually doesn't break. Has anyone read about the history of the father of the HS shooter? It probably explains a good bit of this kids problems.

Kevin,

Your points are valid and well taken.

Responsible gun owners, including those who store those weapons in a secure manner, is not the issue.

Although I may disagree with the absolute proliferation of people having guns in this country and its impact on our society, I do respect your second amendment rights.

The question remains that if this individual did not have access to a gun, would this incident have occurred resulting in the death of three innocent high school students.

Accountability and trying to prevent these tragedies from occurring in the future, IMHO, is the issue.

GG

Gordon Gray said:

Kevin,

Your points are valid and well taken.

Responsible gun owners, including those who store those weapons in a secure manner, is not the issue.

Although I may disagree with the absolute proliferation of people having guns in this country and its impact on our society, I do respect your second amendment rights.

The question remains that if this individual did not have access to a gun, would this incident have occurred resulting in the death of three innocent high school students.

Accountability and trying to prevent these tragedies from occurring in the future, IMHO, is the issue.

GG

Click to expand...

100% agree Gordon. While I don't really know what to think about the second amendment, that kid would very likely have been disarmed before multiple kids were killed if he had something less overtly lethal than a gun. Also, how many kids accidentally stab/club themselves or their friends to death versus shootings?

While it really does come back to the parents, I still don't believe the gun (as a vehicle of death) can be completely exonerated in so many tragic cases.

I'm running on the treadmill the other day - and I see ' a 6 month old shot to death...' and they show this little kid with a baseball hat on... I mean....my god..... Thing is - the idiots that are committing the crimes are 'way wrong' before they got their hands on the gun ... and that as you all said goes back to parents and society. I live by Detroit - and I firmly believe that education and the parents care and involvement is the only thing that stops this. I don't think kids are born bad... they are made that way.... If you have a mass group of people that are poorly educated, are poor, and are told that the only way to make money is by selling drugs, and it is ACCEPTABLE, in fact a badge of honor to kill someone if they are on your turf.. they grab a gun for protection or to take matters into their own hands.

Maybe making the parents accountable is the answer... But I believe that the gun is just the result of the rest of it.... But, nobody wants to take that on really.... The bottom line is - how do you change people's values - by fear? Are we reduced to having actors do public service announcments because parents won't do the work?